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Syracusa, have you ever been a SAHM for any length of time? You have come to these boards asking for help with your son, have you ever experienced being with him 24/7? Being a SAHM is not physically demanding, but it is mentally demanding.
Most SAHMs I know do cook from scratch, grocery shop, clean, do the laundry, etc, AND deal with small, sometimes irrational children. There are many times I wished I was off working with adults instead of handling cranky kids.
I think the one who really loses when a father isn't involved, is the child. And that, to me, is a shame.
a) I never said I can't handle my role. Sure I can, and that's what I've been doing, but I don't think it's right that when you decide to have a child in a two-parent household, you sign up to be some sort of domestic servant to everyone in the household, AND you need to beg the FATHER of the child to spend time with them.
Did the other partner sign up for slaving away in the workplace for everyone else in the household?
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Originally Posted by EvilCookie
Like I've said, if I wanted to raise a child on my own I would've gone to a sperm bank - then at least I wouldn't have another person to cook for and clean after
Right. Except "the sperm" can't earn a paycheck. YOU would have had to do this as well as pay for childcare and everything in between for your child.
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Originally Posted by EvilCookie
Sarcasm aside, there is a reason I wanted to have kids from this man, who I expected to be a good husband and father (and he is in a lot of ways), but for him to actually be a father more than just in name, he needs to shut off the computer and actually do hands-on parenting, without me having to tell him to, or at the very least without belittling me when I do. This is the real problem here; yes I can hire a babysitter, but it just seems sort of wrong to pay a stranger to play with the child while the father, who already hasn't seen him the whole day, is playing video games.
I am about to say something that will come across as extremely unpopular, will ruffle feathers, will curl up toes, will require sniffing salts and the like. Here's the truth: it is normal for many adults to experience playing with kids as boring and tiring. Most will not tell you that because it can easily be interpreted as "not loving your kids". This is huge BS - because parents have always raised and loved their children without making themselves part of their play. The idea that a good parent is a parent who BECOMES PART of his/her child's play is new. Not only new but also major BS and even harmful. The last thing a tired parent wants is to make himself part of small children's games.
Reading together, doing homework together, discussing things together when the child is older - that's another thing; but playing "small child play"? It's torture for many adults and many can't wait to send the kids back into their imaginary world so they can think adult thoughts .
My parents and grandparents have never done it (and we have an extremely strong relationship), I have never really enjoyed it myself (though I've done it, per contemporary pressure and guilt). I do, however, enjoy watching them play with each other - but I go crazy if I have to do the play myself.
In a nut shell, good parenting doesn't come from playing with small children. This is not the job of either the provider dad nor the SAHM. It has never been before - but now, that industrialization relieved the housewife from doing any production in the home, it's become "de rigueur", part of the "job responsibilities".
Play is what children do in their own world.
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Originally Posted by EvilCookie
...I don't care if it's 'production' or 'consumption' or whatever, but I consider it more important to spend time with my son, take him places and do fun things with him as opposed to picking up toys for the 25th time a day...I feel that my obligation as sahm is to my son first and foremost, household comes after. Oh and I do cook from scratch most of the time, and always for DS, we don't eat nuggets (I'll cheat and use some jarred sauces and such for DH's meals sometimes). On weekends we'll order or go out, but more for the variety/entertainment factor.
Just because you decree that this is what's important TO YOU, doesn't mean that your husband will agree that this is what your job should be limited to. You may not care about what's "consumption" and what's "production" but in the real world, these things have a way of ...mattering.
Your husband SPONSORS the luxury of you doing "mommy-and-me" time with your son most of the day. Say "thank you" and move on. Historically speaking, this is a frivolity. Average domestic women in the American past or worldwide have NEVER done this; even the rich ones didn't because they had social obligations imposed by family status; so they kissed the kids, petted them on the head and sent them their way with the governess to attend X or Y charity.
You stay at home and do largely the historically unheard of "mommy-and-me" time - which again, doesn't bring anything concrete to the male partner. There's a price to pay for that.
Syracusa, have you ever been a SAHM for any length of time?
Two years - all while working part-time from home. Was doing everything the housewife of the 50's as well as the SAHM of the 2000's is doing now, plus the work for the outside-the-home party. Don't need preaching - I've experienced all sides. Including that of working full-time ALL WHILE doing daycare, housework, cooking from scratch etc.
And yes, you are right. Kids today are demanding - because we raised them to be so from day 1.
Housewives used to place them in a pen and let them discover independence. We have tended to each and every one of their blinkings to the point where they are so needy and clingy it is insane.
Moreover, think about how much toy-junk small children have in the home today - and how much they had in the past. Perhaps part of the SAH job would be to consume less and have less to tend to as a result?
Two years - all while working part-time from home. Was doing everything the housewife of the 50's as well as the SAHM of the 2000's is doing now, plus the work for the outside-the-home party. Don't need preaching - I've experienced all sides. Including that of working full-time ALL WHILE doing daycare, housework, cooking from scratch etc.
And yes, you are right. Kids today are demanding - because we raised them to be so from day 1.
Housewives used to place them in a pen and let them discover independence. We have tended to each and every one of their blinkings to the point where they are so needy and clingy it is insane.
Moreover, think about how much toy-junk small children have in the home today - and how much they had in the past. Perhaps part of the SAH job would be to consume less and have less to tend to as a result?
Why are you guys taking syracusa so seriously, in their bio it states that they are a professional cynic, there's no use in responding to these types. Btw Syracusa, how's the meth cooking coming?
He does the bath. I don't ask for more cause I know it'll set him off on how he already does so much and it's never enough for me yadda yadda, and honestly I'm really grateful I can at least rely on him doing that every night, because it gives me 15-20 minutes of peace but I also I hate dealing with the bath so I'm just grateful and then take over from there once they're done.
Please don't have another child. I'll bet there are other areas in your life that have fuzzy boundries. You and your husband clearly need to discuss expectations regarding your marriage and parenting. Men really have nothing in common with a three year old. As the child gets older and developes a vocabulary the two will become closer. When you nag to your husband about not spending time with his son, you've just turned bonding into a chore for him. Be happy you can spend so much time with your child.
Hey no offense....but as a full time WM who gets up at 5.30 to make lunches, etc and gets home 6.00ish....yes, you're whining.
SO different than being a SAHM, sorry. This is an entirely different argument, but having done both, I would rather get up at 5:00 a.m. get stuff done for the kids, drive off to work, and home late, make dinner and spend time with the family. You get alone time. You get to decide when to go the bathroom, when to have lunch, when to take a breath.
A SAHM is at beck and call of her kids 24/7 with not a single moment alone. Nothing better than when you have to go to the bathroom for an hour, but your kids diaper needs changing, lunch made, supervision with a toy etc. Your schedule is dictated to you. It is THE HARDEST JOB in the world.
Your husband SPONSORS the luxury of you doing "mommy-and-me" time with your son most of the day.
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Housewives used to place them in a pen and let them discover independence.
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Men really have nothing in common with a three year old.
Wow. I don't even know what to say.
I feel like with the way some of these posts are going, someone's gonna advise husbands to club the wife over the head to stop her yapping and drag her off into the cave so she knows her place... Oh, and toss the kid into a snake pit while at it, they make awesome playmates
Well congratulations! You're awesome. I'm just not sure why you stopped in to tell us all that.
So there could be a big fight spurred by angry responses to her posts, to be followed by gloating about how spoiled or PC or weak or otherwise inferior we are compared to her, then more gloating about how we can't handle "the truth". These are the ways of the Internet message board, young grasshopper. It's thread derailment 101! LOL.
I keed, I keed.
Anyway OP, I admire your temperament! You seem like a cool chick.
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Originally Posted by veuvegirl
SO different than being a SAHM, sorry. This is an entirely different argument, but having done both, I would rather get up at 5:00 a.m. get stuff done for the kids, drive off to work, and home late, make dinner and spend time with the family. You get alone time. You get to decide when to go the bathroom, when to have lunch, when to take a breath.
A SAHM is at beck and call of her kids 24/7 with not a single moment alone. Nothing better than when you have to go to the bathroom for an hour, but your kids diaper needs changing, lunch made, supervision with a toy etc. Your schedule is dictated to you. It is THE HARDEST JOB in the world.
Of course, this is just my humble opinion.
Man you nailed that. LOL! Well done.
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Oh, and toss the kid into a snake pit while at it, they make awesome playmates 
