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OK this is going to make the anti sir and ma'am people cringe but I just realize I even say sir to my husband! he says something I don't hear or understand, I say "Sir?". Again it's how I was raised. Believe me the man has no authority whatsoever over me -much to his chagrin. And he uses ma'am with me. I just realized this after his being home a few hours. I never even thought about it before. We have a Mexican crew of yard people and I said Sir to them and they said Ma'am to me. But come to think of it they do have authority over me cause without them our grass would look like ...well..let's just say they do a great job.
That seems so weird to me. Makes the words meaningless in my opinion. Sir is meant to be used for people in authority over you (senior officers if you're in the Forces and male teachers when you're at school) and ma'am is what you call the Queen (and senior female officers) not any woman. Whats wrong with saying 'excuse me?' if you didn't hear?
It's funny though, the difference in speech, regionally. You see, the "Mister" part of the statement would have been acceptable...the "Hey" part, not so much. "Excuse me, Mister, we would like some of that thyme, please. Thank you.", seems so much more polite.
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Originally Posted by Natsku
I think 'mister' is just as polite as 'sir', its the male equivalent of 'miss' which is perfectly polite.
Yeh, it's the "Hey" part that bothered me.
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Originally Posted by jkcoop
We are just a bunch of hooligans out here in the west because of the lack of using sir and ma'am. Wild, wild west.
LOL. Well I'm no hooligan. But thanks for the clear description of us Westerners!
I think we're all saying the same thing, differently. It's not the lack of using "sir" or "ma'am" that some of us find ill-mannered, for me at least, it's the perception that those who do use the terms are "southern" or backwards or determined to live a life of subservience. SMH.
IMO, it's not regional. I do think it's at times age-related, military-related, or simply cultural or one's family's preference. I've heard women become upset when called ma'am. I never understood why. What's the big deal? It's better than someone saying "hey you" or "hey lady" or "hey." I will say that from my own observation (in retail and other informal environments in Cali) the women who found "ma'am" offensive were pretty vain. Meaning, they felt like someone saw them as old! But hey, that's Cali for you...LOL!
That seems so weird to me. Makes the words meaningless in my opinion. Sir is meant to be used for people in authority over you (senior officers if you're in the Forces and male teachers when you're at school) and ma'am is what you call the Queen (and senior female officers) not any woman. Whats wrong with saying 'excuse me?' if you didn't hear?
Where did you find those definitions? They are not exclusively used for people in authority over you. I posted earlier that the AMERICAN definition of Ma'am can be for ANY woman that you do not know. That is not limited to the queen.
I think this is a perfect example of why word usage is irrelevant. Drumming it into a child to parrot "Sir" or "Ma'am" is completely meaningless if they are not respectful in the way they interact with people.
I agree with you on that. I would be much more concerned about the words "please' and 'thank you".
Where did you find those definitions? They are not exclusively used for people in authority over you. I posted earlier that the AMERICAN definition of Ma'am can be for ANY woman that you do not know. That is not limited to the queen.
Thats how they are supposed to be used in the UK (where I am orginally from) which just proves that usage varies with culture/region/country (there are other countries in the world than the US and their customs are just as valid) and that lack of it does not mean someone hasn't been raised right, only differently.
First of all, the only thing I was referring to was teaching the kids to be respectful. That can be done with or without teaching them to say "yes sir" or "yes ma'am." But to belittle the teaching of using those terms just because it's not common to do so is rather petty.
If the OP wants to teach her kids to use them,then she should do so. If you (whoever you are) don't choose to teach your kids to use them, then don't. But don't belittle someone for a different choice. As long as your kids are taught manners and to respect other people's opinions even when they disagree with those opinions, you will have done a great job as a parent.
Once again I never said those who don't use or teach sir and ma'am are scum of the earth. The "Hey Mister" seemed so rude and there has to be a better way even if sir isn't used. like "Excuse me would you reach the thyme for me. Thank You" That is perfect to me but my own kids would have said "Excuse me sir , would you..."
Well that explains it. he uses ma'am with me cause I AM the Queen- of my house that is and I'll be sure to remind him of it as soon as i finish serving him his breakfast and washing his clothes and changing the oil in his car and caring for his children and paying his bills and.....
LOL. Well I'm no hooligan. But thanks for the clear description of us Westerners!
I think we're all saying the same thing, differently. It's not the lack of using "sir" or "ma'am" that some of us find ill-mannered, for me at least, it's the perception that those who do use the terms are "southern" or backwards or determined to live a life of subservience. SMH.
IMO, it's not regional. I do think it's at times age-related, military-related, or simply cultural or one's family's preference. I've heard women become upset when called ma'am. I never understood why. What's the big deal? It's better than someone saying "hey you" or "hey lady" or "hey." I will say that from my own observation (in retail and other informal environments in Cali) the women who found "ma'am" offensive were pretty vain. Meaning, they felt like someone saw them as old! But hey, that's Cali for you...LOL!
Clearly, from the posts in this thread, you're right...it isn't a regional thing. Personally, I don't recall EVER having Sir and Ma'am crammed down my throat. In fact, it was a speech pattern/habit that we grew up hearing.
In view of the fact that I spent more time at school and at home, than I did anywhere else, those were my influences. Come to think of it, teachers were probably the biggest influence on my speech than anyone else. Watching other children get called on their manners, in the classroom, in front of everyone else, was enough incentive for me, to use excellent manners. Even in classrooms where the teachers were not "grammar nazis".....you could see their expression on their face (it wasn't good), when students used "rude" speech.
And.....HEY! .... Am I one of the few people who was taught that you NEVER say, "Hey you!" "Hey! Mister!" Again, yeah.....maybe it's not regional, but more so, the schools you went to, teachers who influenced your life AND the way you were raised.
The thing of it is, many people out there don't regularly use Sir and Ma'am, but that doesn't mean that they aren't polite and respectful people. That being said, it doesn't mean that those who DO use Sir and Ma'am have something wrong with them, either!!
I don't think most are "anti" ma'am or sir, they just want it recognized that the lack of usage doesn't in and of itself imply one is rude or ill mannered. It's more if a locale custom than anything. If I lived where it was considered normal, I'd probably expect my kids to comply; but the inference that those who's customs are different from your own are wrong or "cringe-worthy" is insulting.
Exactly this. My kids do say "excuse me, please, thank you" and all of that.
It's a Southern, South West and Southern Mid West thing. It's not a way to gauge weather or not children or young adults are polite or not.
We even know people from the south who no longer use that, and one who purposefully didn't to increase her daughter's social and geographical mobility.
I'll put it to you this way, it's not am affectation that is about to spread around the country.
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I agree with you on that. I would be much more concerned about the words "please' and 'thank you".
