Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
At eleven years old I had been hunting with my father and my family for years. I understood the danger that any gun can pose, I had good "gun etiquette" and knew how to be safe. It is not beyond an 11 year old to trustworthy with tools and weapons, whether it is a saw, a hammer, a pocketknife or a gun. This isn't to say that supervision is not required and that common-sense precaution isn't warranted, but the belief that responsibility can not be expected of an 11-year-old is a complete fallacy.
Most of my parents' guns were locked in a safe, but I knew where a shotgun for home-defence was, I knew where the ammunition was, I knew how to use the gun and I knew not to mess with it. This is generally the rule that the boy from the CNN clip is the exception to. Ready-access to firearms does not necessarily equate to violence.
To me, this says more about the boy and his parenting than anything else. I remember being eleven years old and I remember hunting and shooting at that age. I understood perfectly well what happens to something on the dangerous end of a shotgun when the trigger is pulled and I understood that when someone dies it is forever.
The boy knew what he was doing. A boy who can make that kind of decision is dangerous with or without guns in the house. A gun is a completely neutral, inert object without a human to wield it and it is simply a neutral tool in the hands of a well-trained, cautious human.
Perfectly stated and totally correct!
If I could give you more than one rep point, I would right now, lol!
The parents problem was that they didn't take the signs he showed regarding contempt for her seriously. They didn't make him feel as though his opinons mattered and sit down and try to figure out what he real damage was regarding the new baby and lady in the house. The father bullied him and told him to knock it off and treat step mom in training with respect. That is not acknowledging this kids feelings and making him feel that his emotions were important and obviously getting him some psychological help. That is where they went wrong. Kids don't just say things without a reason.
I completely agree with this analysis. I think it's so sad that many parents simply don't know how to talk with their children in way that allows for personal exploration and appropriate guidance.
With this particular story the dad so far has come off as authoritarian figure with poor communication skills. Maybe he really didn't know HOW to effectively talk to his kid.
Why is a mother asleep on the couch while an 11 year old and 7 year old get themselves ready and off to school? And why was she asleep while the 4 year old was wandering around?
Where are the fathers (the kids don't look anything alike) of the Kenzie's girls? Where is the mother of Jordan?
Sorry, but no matter what the Houk's say...this does not sound like a wholesome Cleaver family.
Dunno why she was sleeping, but I do know I was hella tired 24/7 my last few months with the kiddo (youngest), and I once fell asleep waiting in line at the grocery store, lol! (thank goodness hubby was there with me!)
So, while I don't agree with her being asleep, I *can* understand it.
As far as the kids not looking alike, big deal. I know QUITE a few siblings of the exact same parents and they don't look alike. Hell, my best girlfriend has twin boys and they don't look alike at all, one looks like her, and the other looks like Dad.
I also want to add, not every "dysfunctional" family has kids that grow up to be s**t stains. My little sister grew up like that (I was raised by my grandparents) and she's an amazing member of society. I think it's just as much nature as nurture and your own personal choices as well.
Maybe he really didn't know HOW to effectively talk to his kid.
A lot of fathers do not know how to talk to their children because in general men just do not do a lot of talking to anyone about feelings and such. Also a lot of fathers feel like "if there is no blood or broken bones then there is nothing to fix." In otherwords if there is no physical signs of there being something wrong, then nothing is wrong and they won't go and get help for their kids, or their wife, or themselves.
A lot of men's philosophies are: Big boys don't cry and if you ain't bleeding or broke then suck it up and get over it.
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,309 posts, read 38,787,526 times
Reputation: 7185
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyoquilter
A lot of fathers do not know how to talk to their children because in general men just do not do a lot of talking to anyone about feelings and such. Also a lot of fathers feel like "if there is no blood or broken bones then there is nothing to fix." In otherwords if there is no physical signs of there being something wrong, then nothing is wrong and they won't go and get help for their kids, or their wife, or themselves.
A lot of men's philosophies are: Big boys don't cry and if you ain't bleeding or broke then suck it up and get over it.
No offense, but at this point you should probably return to someplace where you actually know what you're talking about.
No offense, but at this point you should probably return to someplace where you actually know what you're talking about.
I do know what I am talking about. Just about every man I have encountered do not talk or discuss their feelings with anyone, nor do they want to hear about anyone else's feelings or they make very light of other's feelings. I'm not saying every father or man is this way, but from my experiences with men (I had a ton of male friends while growing up and still have more male friends then women friends even today) most of them were/are to macho to talk about feelings as by doing so they felt/feel weak or girly.
In fact I know several fathers who were road blocks for getting their children into counceling because 1)they felt that counceling was for crazy people and their children were not crazy or 2) they felt their children were just whiners and needed to buck up and get over it or 3) They couldn't understand the need to see a doctor if they weren't bleeding or broken.
Thankfully the kids didn't become killers, but some are in counceling today now that they are old enough to make medical and mental health decisions for themselves and they had mothers who did talk with and listen to them about what they were feeling.
I do know what I am talking about. Just about every man I have encountered do not talk or discuss their feelings with anyone, nor do they want to hear about anyone else's feelings or they make very light of other's feelings. I'm not saying every father or man is this way, but from my experiences with men (I had a ton of male friends while growing up and still have more male friends then women friends even today) most of them were/are to macho to talk about feelings as by doing so they felt/feel weak or girly.
In fact I know several fathers who were road blocks for getting their children into counceling because 1)they felt that counceling was for crazy people and their children were not crazy or 2) they felt their children were just whiners and needed to buck up and get over it or 3) They couldn't understand the need to see a doctor if they weren't bleeding or broken.
Thankfully the kids didn't become killers, but some are in counceling today now that they are old enough to make medical and mental health decisions for themselves and they had mothers who did talk with and listen to them about what they were feeling.
We do talk about feelings. We're more selective about it. But we will talk about them.
Strangely enough...mentioning counseling...aren't a MAJORITY of counselors/psychologists men?
A lot of fathers do not know how to talk to their children because in general men just do not do a lot of talking to anyone about feelings and such. Also a lot of fathers feel like "if there is no blood or broken bones then there is nothing to fix." In otherwords if there is no physical signs of there being something wrong, then nothing is wrong and they won't go and get help for their kids, or their wife, or themselves.
A lot of men's philosophies are: Big boys don't cry and if you ain't bleeding or broke then suck it up and get over it.
You just described my dad EXACTLY how he was when I was growing up.
He's changed some, but it takes a noticeable effort on his part to
1. realize something is wrong
2. realize he can/should do something about
3. know what to do about it
4. actually do it
He's trying and he wants to change. But, it's hard for him. He had the "strong, silent type" of role models when he was growing up and he really doesn't know another way to be in a natural way. He tries, but it's foreign to him, and thus feels fake. It's fairly easy to feel the pent up stress in him at these times.
I wish that communication was taught in schools. And I wish they'd bring back home ec and woodshop and mechanics (but require both boys and girls to take them all). And typing. Ooops....wrong topic
In any case, it doesn't matter anymore. For this situation, it's too late. The kid murdered two people. You can't go back. It's useless to point fingers. It's far better to change things so there are fewer chances of that repeating with someone else. No matter how the father raised that boy, what he did was wrong and he needs to be punished for it. Should the father be required to take parenting classes? HECK YES! All parents should.
No, i don't think these people were neccessarily good parents because your children USUALLY don't want to kill you if you are a GOOD parent. So that goes without saying, but really now, for your judgemental group to assume she was rotten merely because she was asleep when the little punk shot her is ridiculous. Hope your kids never hit a rough patch and you are to busy to notice. They may want to HARM you and by your own standards, you would be deserving to get hurt by them.
Considering you are so - to quote you - "judgemental" - towards the "little punk" then you will enjoy this news. Seems as though the bio mom of the "little punk" had a protection of abuse order against the bio father. He was violent, had a temper, drank, and did drugs. I am sure the bio dad wasn't at all abusive to the "little punk" (heavy on the sarcasm).
Considering you are so - to quote you - "judgemental" - towards the "little punk" then you will enjoy this news. Seems as though the bio mom of the "little punk" had a protection of abuse order against the bio father. He was violent, had a temper, drank, and did drugs. I am sure the bio dad wasn't at all abusive to the "little punk" (heavy on the sarcasm).
It still doesn't excuse the "little punk's" behavior. Of course there are reasons for it...which should have been dealt with. But you can't just go kill people because things aren't working out for ya.
Of course an 11 year old wouldn't understand the complexity of that the way we do. True. However, 11 is plenty old enough to have a basic understanding that killing someone is wrong no matter what.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
