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Old 02-25-2007, 06:24 PM
 
Location: Phoenix metro
20,004 posts, read 77,363,453 times
Reputation: 10371

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ Rider View Post
Most folks get bitten because they harass the snake, belong to some dorky snake-handling cult, put their hands in crevices without looking, or bear a strong resemblance to a kangaroo rat. It was once my belief that virtually everyone who suffered a rattlesnake bite had it coming. I still believe this, though because of my recent experience, I have to add "boneheaded inattentiveness" to the list.

Average number of deaths from rattlesnake bites in AZ: <1 per year (one every 2-3 Years)

Last time someone in AZ died of a scorpion sting: 1968

Average number of death from tornadoes in Illinois: 4 per year.

Last time someone died in a tornado in IL: Well someone gets killed by one every year - sometime a lot of peope are killed.

Steve-O, do the people of your beloved home state a favor and start warning them of the risks of tornadoes! Shake out your clothes? - good grief!
What does tornadoes have to do with scorpions and snakes? Lets not get off topic here, just to start a pointless debate. Your chances of seeing a tornado are slim to none, especially dying from one, your chances of seeing a scorpion are much greater. Ive lived here 30 years and still have yet to see one. Back on track...

Unless you understand the properties of Centruroides venom and their effects on the human body, you really cant understand how truly dangerous they really are. As for deaths per year? Yes, its true noone has died in AZ since the 60s, but ONLY FOR ONE REASON: the antivenom has been readily available. Every year in AZ, 10 people are required to receive AV. W/o it, they would likely have died. To a healthy adult, a Centruroides sting is a bad experience, localized pain, sometimes spreading throughout the affected extremity. You can expect intense burning pain, loss of feeling, varying degrees of numbness, shooting "electrical-like" pains that can last for days, etc. Victims with weaker immune systems (ie infants, elderly, disease-stricken) cannot take the matter lightly, nor should they ever. Even a healthy adult runs the risk of death from the sting of a AZ bark scorpion (Centruroides exilicauda). Unless you know and understand these things, please dont make it out to seem like theyre harmless just because noone has died. I spend LOTS of time working with these critters and researching them, I know them like the back of my own hand. To argue with me and say that its silly to have to check your clothes is simply foolish. Lets start with some facts to end this discussion right now..

Scorpions hide anywhere they can, most of the time its in clothes on the floor. Most household stings occur this way, you can ask my brother in law who was stung in this central Scottsdale home because he carelessly left clothes on the floor. Luckily I ID'd the scorpion as a Vaejovis confusus, another commonly seen scorpion in AZ, theyre relatively harmless. Thier venom toxicity is nowhere near the scale of Centruroides venom, meaning your chances of dying are pretty much nil. He described the sting as red-hot, equated it to feeling like someone put out a cigarette on his thumb, the effects lasted for about 20 minutes. Centruroides exilicauda are arboreal, meaning they climb. MANY people in the PHX area are stung when they put on clothes w/o checking them, simply because the scorpion has taken temporary shelter in thier clothes. One ASU football player was stung in the schools' locker room when a scorp hid in his jersey. He turned out ok, but received AV as a precaution. These scorpions are no joke, theyre lethal, and they climb, and theyre the most common scorpion in AZ. They should NOT be taken lightly, ever.

Back to the AV talk... noone has died in AZ because of the AV program that ASU had developed to alleviate the DEATHS that were common in the valley due to Centruroides stings. Now, that professor has since retired (I forget her name at the moment) and left the state with a 5 years supply of AV. She retired a few years back, leaving you guys only a few short years to procure another source of Centruroides AV. The state of AZ is currently looking into a better Mexican AV, to combat the 10s of 1000s of Centruroides stings each year in Mexico, currently about 3,000 people still die a year in Mexico from Centruroides stings (mainly noxious and limpidus stings). Bet you didnt know that, did you? Yep, if you think Centruroides stings arent bad, the people in Mexico will say otherwise. Any scorpiologist or entomologist out there will agree, AZ bark scorpions are a medically significant species. IOW, theyre potentially lethal. As for the AV, when the state supply has expired or run out, AZ is going to be in big trouble, mark my words. Each year dozens of childrens' lives are saved by AV and AV only, when that supply runs out, well, youre screwed. The USDA has not nor probably will not approve of the Mexican AV that AZ will need. Once the deaths from bark scorpions start making the news, youll be singing a different tune.

Watch some shows on scorpions and youll learn the truth. Dont think that just because a death hasnt occured since the 60s, that the species arent dangerous. Dont think that you shouldnt check your clothes before putting them on, youd be a fool not to. Dont think that there are no scorpions around just because you havent seen one. Invite me to your house, I guarantee Ill find you some, Ive done it dozens of times to unsuspecting Phoencians, Ill do it free of charge too. Are they overrunning homes? No, not even close, but theyre there and a fact of life in the Sonoran Desert. The last scorpion show I saw on TV, a family from Tucson had all 3 of their girls stung and in the hospital, suffering from life-threatening symptoms due to Centruroides stings, its a dangerous thing.

Here, I picked up this paper last time I was in Scottsdale. Its the 9/21 Desert Advocate paper. This tot was stung, only 5 minutes later almost died. The quick thinking of thier parents (and some basic knowledge), got the kid to the hospital right on time to recieve some AV. Had they waited another 10 minutes, hed have died. Still think its silly to check your clothes? Hardly. Do some reasearch, or if youre too lazy, ask me, Ill be glad to help answer questions....

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j292/Illinoisboy/1029.jpg (broken link)

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j292/Illinoisboy/1030.jpg (broken link)
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Old 02-25-2007, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Phoenix metro
20,004 posts, read 77,363,453 times
Reputation: 10371
To the original poster: please ask me if you have any questions about scorpions, theyre best answered by professionals, not novice folks who wouldnt know a harmless Vaejovis species from a potentially lethal Centruroides species. Theyre common, yes. Your chances of being stung? Slim to none if you know how to live life with them and know what to expect. CHECK YOUR CLOTHES, its important. I personally have known 2 people in Scottsdale that got stung from not checking their clothes. Dont pick up litter from the yard w/o looking (this includes stones, logs, etc). A favorite hiding place for Centruroides species in under flat surfaces. Use a portable blacklight at night, they flouresce a bright green color. Gently use some tweezers, and pick them up by their tails and put them in a glass jar, which they cannot climb. Take them outside and release them, theyre beneficial to have around.

Here, EVERYONE read this site, has some useful info on what danger signs to look out for when stung by a scorpion. Once again, dont listen to people who know NOTHING about scorpions, youd be foolish to. If you have any questions, please let me know.

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/travel/di...nd_spiders.htm


Also, if you want more info on scorpions, visit Eric Ytheir's site www.scorpionfauna.com. Hes a great guy and is vastly knowledgeable about scorpions. You can also visit www.venomlist.com to learn more as well.
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Old 02-25-2007, 06:43 PM
 
Location: Phoenix metro
20,004 posts, read 77,363,453 times
Reputation: 10371
It must be remembered that scorpions play a very important part in the ecosystem, and shouldnt be destroyed. They eat disease-spreading cockroaches, and also lethal black widows (Latrodectus species). Please remove them w/o being so quick to kill them. A little research and time spent with them and youll begin to appreciate them and what a magnificent creature they are.

Here is a Arizona desert hairy scorpion (Hadrurus arizonensis). This was caught in Carefree, AZ. Theyre not lethal, but still pack a healthy punch. PLEASE DO NOT HANDLE SCORPIONS! I DO NOT CONDONE HANDLING SCORPIONS. Ive worked with them for years and know how to handle them. This species is the largest in North America and are common in the outer fringes of PHX, with LOTS of confirmed sighting within PHX city limits.



This is a Smeringurus mesaensis (Arizona dune scorpion). The sting is horribly painful, but not considered life threatening like a Centruroides sting.


This is what a scorpion (in this case another AZ desert hairy scorpion) looks like when exposed to black light. Something in their exoskeleton (noone knows what or why) causes them to flouresce, making them easy to spot at night. Just be careful when blacklighting at night! Just because scorpions glow, its easy to forget that rattlesnakes (Crotalids) dont! Ive had a few run-ins with rattlers while blacklighting, not very fun! LOL


Here is why you shouldnt pick things up that are in the yard! This rock I flipped in Missouri had not one, but 4 Centruroides vittatus (another scorpion with a super-painful sting) underneath it!


Here is a picture of the H. arizonensis I brought home. Here it is seen envenomating a cricket. Alot of people think that scorpions "bite", and thats what causes the pain. Wrong. They sting using their aculeus (the needle-like stinger) at the end of their metasoma (tail). Alot of scorpion stings are "dry" and just "warning stings", if you will. If you get one, consider yourself lucky. Here is the classic scorpion sting pose, it happens very rapidly.
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j292/Illinoisboy/H.jpg (broken link)

Here is one of my Vaejovis species with babies. These dont produce as much offspring as Centruroides species, Im just using this for reference. Its easy to see why once a house is infected, youre pretty much always infected. Centruroides are very proliferant breeders, they breed like cats. One mother can retain sperm (from a spermatophore) and have several clutches of babies, sometimes up to 40 at a time!
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Old 02-25-2007, 08:58 PM
 
132 posts, read 516,978 times
Reputation: 64
well Steve-o , I am sure that you have succesfully scared the crap out of anyone who was considering moving here. I can only assume that was your intention. I don't have any photos to support my opinoin, by the way nice job on that , they add a lot of SHOCK value. I still say, with extreme confidence, its not a big deal!!! I think the most people that live here would agree. Yes we have the scorps, the snakes, the spiders, but the average Phoenician probably sees about 1 scorp every 5 years.( i just threw that out there , no facts). But I guess if we are looking to slow our population growth and need someone to make people scared to move here , then we know who to contact.
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Old 02-25-2007, 09:48 PM
 
Location: Phoenix metro
20,004 posts, read 77,363,453 times
Reputation: 10371
Trust me, its not my intent to scare anyone into moving there. To think that is silly. Its IS my intent to share my knowledge of these creatures, to dispel any myths that surround them, and to factually inform the general public. Will you get stung? Unlikely, if youre on the lookout for them. Will you die from a sting? Unless youre highly allergic to the neurotoxic venom, probably not. If you have infants around thats another story, they need to have their sheets/clothes/shoes/etc checked before wearing them. Also, I forgot to mention that checking the shower and towels before use is very wise, scorpions love damp places.

Also keep in mind that only 1/10th of 1% of snake bites are fatal. Snakes and scorpions and spiders are NOT out to get you. Nor will any chase you, another big urban legend.

I would also suggest that if someone has massive arachnophobia, there are MANY clinics worldwide that help people deal with that certain phobia.

And youre right, its NOT a big deal, certainly not a big enough deal to be the deciding factor in your move. But with that being said, you also have to remember that youre in THEIR territory, and if you want to move to the Sonoran Desert, theyre a fact of life. Its all up to the individual on how they treat their fear. I would definitely say its silly to not want to move somewhere just because of the wildlife. Just learn about them and sooner or later the phobia will be replaced with fascination, just like it was for me. For heavens sake, I used to make my wife kill any spiders we found in the house. LOL No joke! My fascination with arachnids all started in AZ when my FIL pulled a dead bark scorpion from his pool. A close examination of it instantly sparked massive intrigue, such that to this day I keep them as pets.

One more interesting fact: tarantulas have NEVER killed anyone. Their venom is too weak, there has never been a documented death from tarantula bite. See? Theyre not bad critters!
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Old 02-26-2007, 05:59 AM
 
Location: Conn. To AZ in 2007
68 posts, read 254,063 times
Reputation: 33
Default bravo cj81

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cj81 View Post
well Steve-o , I am sure that you have succesfully scared the crap out of anyone who was considering moving here. I can only assume that was your intention. I don't have any photos to support my opinoin, by the way nice job on that , they add a lot of SHOCK value. I still say, with extreme confidence, its not a big deal!!! I think the most people that live here would agree. Yes we have the scorps, the snakes, the spiders, but the average Phoenician probably sees about 1 scorp every 5 years.( i just threw that out there , no facts). But I guess if we are looking to slow our population growth and need someone to make people scared to move here , then we know who to contact.
Moderator cut: personal - off topic I've lived in Arizona for the better part of 12 years and never,not ONCE had a negative encounter with bugs or snakes.

Last edited by Marka; 02-26-2007 at 07:45 AM..
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Old 02-26-2007, 11:37 AM
 
4 posts, read 30,252 times
Reputation: 20
ok I am scared now! Am I going to be terrified to ever let my kids play outside if we move there??
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Old 02-26-2007, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Oxygen Ln. AZ
9,319 posts, read 18,743,008 times
Reputation: 5764
I am now moving. Very interesting Steve-O, fantastic pictures. I will now be able to get my 18 year old son to pick up his room, and I am going to go vacuum again.
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:54 PM
 
3,632 posts, read 16,163,121 times
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This goes along with my last post....I asked my BF last night who came here from Chicago about 14 years ago if he thinks we have a bug problem. He looked at me strange said "no!". I asked him if he thinks there's a worse bug "problem" in chicago than here and he said yes. There's more bugs to see and get rid of. However, I can see that AZ has more (probably) poisenous bugs to deal with, yes.

I remember backing out of the garage in chicago and finding several hundred orange worm-like specimans all over the driveway. That was one of the weirdest things I've seen. People, we don't have strange creepy crawlys all over the place. The most you will see in the bug kingdom are a few crickets and geckos/lizards. And they are harmless.
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Old 02-26-2007, 08:35 PM
 
Location: Phoenix metro
20,004 posts, read 77,363,453 times
Reputation: 10371
There are more bugs here, no doubt supported by the amount of water they have easy access to. However, there are no bugs that are lethal here, spare southern Illinois (has a widow species and the skin-rotting brown recluse--as well as 4 venomous snake species). I can sleep soundly at night. LOL Just as long as my cages are locked, LOL.

But seriously, AZ is loaded with venomous creatures, but its no reason to NOT move there. Just learn to watch out for them and learn which species are potentially harmful, and youll be ok.
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