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Old 12-11-2011, 01:20 PM
gg gg started this thread
 
Location: Pittsburgh
22,787 posts, read 21,665,671 times
Reputation: 14928

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Firstly, I was quite impressed with this group of obviously educated people. It was NOTHING what so many think. I was actually there and talked to several people today. Here is my story.

I rode my bike downtown rehearsing what I was going to tell the occupiers. My idea was for them to clean and leave the sight. Then write a thank you letter to Pittsburgh and all the supporters of the movement with a short list of things they would like to be done in Washington. This all seemed plausible to me at the time as I was riding my bike and thinking about what I was going to say. I didn't want some pepper spray incident and some big mess to go on.

When I arrived, I noticed they were all cleaning the sight, racking leaves and really organizing. They looked like they were getting ready to leave and do exactly what I had hopped. I then talked to several of them and they discussed UPMC, Mellon and other companies. UPMC was a hot button because they fall under a non-profit and the occupiers feel the whole thing is a sham. Of course the usual companies like Goldman, etc that are sick greedy users of society and have too much control in Washington. The control in Washington was the biggest hot button, I felt. These people were very well read. The average age there was probably in the 60's. Lots of gray hair people. The police seemed to be in favor of them being there and there was no police presence at all. It had a feel of a college grad school campus full of professors and nothing like so many think. It was quiet and orderly. People all wanted to help clean the sight and make it as nice as it can be considering it is actually pretty muddy. The tents and housing was organized and they had makeshift sidewalks. They were obeying laws like keeping real sidewalks clear and free from anything. The media coverage has been sparse because the occupiers do nothing wrong to cause any disturbance. They don't provoke, nor do they recruit or anything that might cause problems, so the media is bored with them and it is hard to hype up some story.

There was not one leader. More like a few that take some charge and people all just want to chip in. It also was VERY crowded today.

Here are some other things I learned:

1. The occupiers want to stay and are not leaving.
2. They have legal representation and there are no doubt plenty of Law professors down there and they knew the law very well.
3. They don't have to leave right now. They have over a month because of paperwork and appeals, etc.
4. Mellon doesn't really own that park, it was supposed to be donated to Pittsburgh, so I was told. This part seemed a little sketchy.
5. There was a lot of support down there from lots of city workers.
6. Seemed the number one thing was how Washington doesn't represent the people anymore, it is all about corporate greed and power that runs Washington. I think they have a point.
7. I don't think it will come down to police kicking them out, but one never knows.
8. If they do have police coming there for that reason, they might just disperse, but there is no plan in place at this time and they don't want some horrible conflict that would look bad.

Overall, this was a very interesting education for me. I have to say, from what I have been reading on this forum and others, most people are totally ignorant about this occupy movement. People haven't a clue and feel it is a bunch of unemployed hippies on welfare and whatever. Um, it isn't. I suspect lots of these people are retired and are not happy with the direction of Washington and our fine country.
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Old 12-11-2011, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
524 posts, read 956,125 times
Reputation: 275
Thanks for the information. I've always had a philosophical sympathy for the occupiers' cause, but every time I'm downtown I'm always in a hurry and haven't had time to go over and talk to them. I appreciate your effort to give us a first hand account.
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Old 12-11-2011, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Virginia
18,717 posts, read 28,953,895 times
Reputation: 42951
Quote:
Originally Posted by onwardandupward View Post
Thanks for the information. I've always had a philosophical sympathy for the occupiers' cause, but every time I'm downtown I'm always in a hurry and haven't had time to go over and talk to them. I appreciate your effort to give us a first hand account.
Me too! I found that very interesting.
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Old 12-11-2011, 03:29 PM
 
20,273 posts, read 30,646,339 times
Reputation: 2900
Thanks, very interesting!
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Old 12-11-2011, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Columbus, Ohio
1,756 posts, read 2,475,859 times
Reputation: 6745
Lightbulb Two Things of Note

Quote:
Originally Posted by h_curtis View Post
Firstly, I was quite impressed with this group of obviously educated people. It was NOTHING what so many think. I was actually there and talked to several people today. Here is my story.

I rode my bike downtown rehearsing what I was going to tell the occupiers. My idea was for them to clean and leave the sight. Then write a thank you letter to Pittsburgh and all the supporters of the movement with a short list of things they would like to be done in Washington. This all seemed plausible to me at the time as I was riding my bike and thinking about what I was going to say. I didn't want some pepper spray incident and some big mess to go on.

When I arrived, I noticed they were all cleaning the sight, racking leaves and really organizing. They looked like they were getting ready to leave and do exactly what I had hopped. I then talked to several of them and they discussed UPMC, Mellon and other companies. UPMC was a hot button because they fall under a non-profit and the occupiers feel the whole thing is a sham. Of course the usual companies like Goldman, etc that are sick greedy users of society and have too much control in Washington. The control in Washington was the biggest hot button, I felt. These people were very well read. The average age there was probably in the 60's. Lots of gray hair people. The police seemed to be in favor of them being there and there was no police presence at all. It had a feel of a college grad school campus full of professors and nothing like so many think. It was quiet and orderly. People all wanted to help clean the sight and make it as nice as it can be considering it is actually pretty muddy. The tents and housing was organized and they had makeshift sidewalks. They were obeying laws like keeping real sidewalks clear and free from anything. The media coverage has been sparse because the occupiers do nothing wrong to cause any disturbance. They don't provoke, nor do they recruit or anything that might cause problems, so the media is bored with them and it is hard to hype up some story.

There was not one leader. More like a few that take some charge and people all just want to chip in. It also was VERY crowded today.

Here are some other things I learned:

1. The occupiers want to stay and are not leaving.
2. They have legal representation and there are no doubt plenty of Law professors down there and they knew the law very well.
3. They don't have to leave right now. They have over a month because of paperwork and appeals, etc.
4. Mellon doesn't really own that park, it was supposed to be donated to Pittsburgh, so I was told. This part seemed a little sketchy.
5. There was a lot of support down there from lots of city workers.
6. Seemed the number one thing was how Washington doesn't represent the people anymore, it is all about corporate greed and power that runs Washington. I think they have a point.
7. I don't think it will come down to police kicking them out, but one never knows.
8. If they do have police coming there for that reason, they might just disperse, but there is no plan in place at this time and they don't want some horrible conflict that would look bad.

Overall, this was a very interesting education for me. I have to say, from what I have been reading on this forum and others, most people are totally ignorant about this occupy movement. People haven't a clue and feel it is a bunch of unemployed hippies on welfare and whatever. Um, it isn't. I suspect lots of these people are retired and are not happy with the direction of Washington and our fine country.
First off...thank you so much for that 'shout-out' you gave me in the 'Panera' thread...LOL---I've been called a lot of things in my life, but 'the voice of reason'? Me?

From my first day here on C-D, I have always tried to call it like I see it...I realize, of course, that when I hit the 'submit reply' button, everyone is not gonna see things my way, but nevertheless, I have no patience whatsoever with BS and nonsense, and that's why I posted what I did in that thread...

Secondly...you had said you were planning to visit Occupy, and you put your money where your mouth was...you went down amongst them, and reported back exactly what you saw and heard...and to me, that gives you credibility, because it's real easy to sit on your a** behind a computer and jaw-jack, and call folks names and to say 'get a job, you dirty (fill in appropriate silly insult here)!'

But it's totally another to ACTUALLY GO OUT AND SEE AND DO AND REPORT BACK ON SAME...and that, sir, puts you head and shoulders above a lot of folk...Bravo
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Old 12-11-2011, 03:45 PM
gg gg started this thread
 
Location: Pittsburgh
22,787 posts, read 21,665,671 times
Reputation: 14928
Quote:
Originally Posted by captaincatfish View Post
But it's totally another to ACTUALLY GO OUT AND SEE AND DO AND REPORT BACK ON SAME...and that, sir, puts you head and shoulders above a lot of folk...Bravo
Firstly, thanks for the kind words. This occupy movement was something on my mind for a while and I really felt it should be visited to actually know what is going on, instead of media pictures and agenda based statements out of context or whatever the media is into.

It truly was enlighted and as you can see my first view and thoughts were incorrect.

I wanted to mention there were some protesters from DC and other places that were thrown out. Some were arrested in DC that were telling me their stories.

A couple more thoughts:
1. There are musical instruments laying around.
2. No theft and self policed.
3. A library is on sight.
4. People were very together and a real feel of unity.
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Old 12-11-2011, 04:15 PM
 
1,445 posts, read 1,808,813 times
Reputation: 1181
Thanks so much for posting this. It's nice to see real facts and reporting here for a change. Now I'm feeling guilty that I haven't been over there.
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Old 12-11-2011, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
6,324 posts, read 8,197,629 times
Reputation: 3994
This was a good and unbiased post. I've always wondered how it was in that camp and what they thought.
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Old 12-11-2011, 06:20 PM
 
Location: North by Northwest
8,108 posts, read 11,155,277 times
Reputation: 5205
Quote:
Originally Posted by captaincatfish View Post
But unfortunately, your 'vote' holds about as much weight as the feathers on a duck's rump...

The OP got off his keister and went down amongst the protesters, and reported back first-hand what he saw, whether you agree with his views or not...but the best you can do is sit around and crack wise about 'voting for more pepper spray...LOTS MORE!'

Until you can bring yourself to do what the OP DID, then you can smart-off all you want, but know that when those 'agenda-less' protesters go to sleep tonite, they and the OP will frankly not give a hot-tub fart about you and your calls for more pepper spray
To be fair, while I sympathize with the fundamental reasons behind the movement, I do have to question the efficacy of its general execution and whether it's ultimately doing the cause's core values more harm than good.

But that, of course, has nothing to do with curtis' initiative in going over and actually sitting down to talk with them. Helped clear up some of my own misconceptions about the makeup of the movement (or, at the very least, its Pittsburgh branch).

Glad they're making an affirmative effort to keep things clean and sanitary. I wholeheartedly believe in freedom of assembly, but it when expression of such freedoms starts to present a public health hazard, something's gotta give. Good to hear this isn't the case in PGH though.
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Old 12-11-2011, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Wilkinsburg
1,661 posts, read 2,502,904 times
Reputation: 991
Quote:
Originally Posted by h_curtis View Post
Firstly, I was quite impressed with this group of obviously educated people. It was NOTHING what so many think. I was actually there and talked to several people today. Here is my story.

I rode my bike downtown rehearsing what I was going to tell the occupiers. My idea was for them to clean and leave the sight. Then write a thank you letter to Pittsburgh and all the supporters of the movement with a short list of things they would like to be done in Washington. This all seemed plausible to me at the time as I was riding my bike and thinking about what I was going to say. I didn't want some pepper spray incident and some big mess to go on.

When I arrived, I noticed they were all cleaning the sight, racking leaves and really organizing. They looked like they were getting ready to leave and do exactly what I had hopped. I then talked to several of them and they discussed UPMC, Mellon and other companies. UPMC was a hot button because they fall under a non-profit and the occupiers feel the whole thing is a sham. Of course the usual companies like Goldman, etc that are sick greedy users of society and have too much control in Washington. The control in Washington was the biggest hot button, I felt. These people were very well read. The average age there was probably in the 60's. Lots of gray hair people. The police seemed to be in favor of them being there and there was no police presence at all. It had a feel of a college grad school campus full of professors and nothing like so many think. It was quiet and orderly. People all wanted to help clean the sight and make it as nice as it can be considering it is actually pretty muddy. The tents and housing was organized and they had makeshift sidewalks. They were obeying laws like keeping real sidewalks clear and free from anything. The media coverage has been sparse because the occupiers do nothing wrong to cause any disturbance. They don't provoke, nor do they recruit or anything that might cause problems, so the media is bored with them and it is hard to hype up some story.

There was not one leader. More like a few that take some charge and people all just want to chip in. It also was VERY crowded today.

Here are some other things I learned:

1. The occupiers want to stay and are not leaving.
2. They have legal representation and there are no doubt plenty of Law professors down there and they knew the law very well.
3. They don't have to leave right now. They have over a month because of paperwork and appeals, etc.
4. Mellon doesn't really own that park, it was supposed to be donated to Pittsburgh, so I was told. This part seemed a little sketchy.
5. There was a lot of support down there from lots of city workers.
6. Seemed the number one thing was how Washington doesn't represent the people anymore, it is all about corporate greed and power that runs Washington. I think they have a point.
7. I don't think it will come down to police kicking them out, but one never knows.
8. If they do have police coming there for that reason, they might just disperse, but there is no plan in place at this time and they don't want some horrible conflict that would look bad.

Overall, this was a very interesting education for me. I have to say, from what I have been reading on this forum and others, most people are totally ignorant about this occupy movement. People haven't a clue and feel it is a bunch of unemployed hippies on welfare and whatever. Um, it isn't. I suspect lots of these people are retired and are not happy with the direction of Washington and our fine country.
Way to go, Curt. Nice work.
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