Considering a move to PGH from New England: Beechview vs. Swissvale (Pittsburgh: buying, maintenance)

[Paul2421]

Originally Posted by bradjl2009

Yeah it will make the journey from Downtown to Oakland much faster, which will also make the ride faster for people further out who live in neighborhoods where their buses go through Oakland. But you know, some say it won't be a benefit for anyone.

seven minute travel savings time with a five minute added transfer.....unless that part got reworked

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by gladhands

The T, in my experience feels slower than even surface bus routes. In some areas it’s barely faster than walking.

99% of the time I'm only on the T downtown or to the North Shore/Station Square. I haven't gone to the South Hills in ages. But absent break downs I don't see how the T can be slower than walking considering it's grade separated.

I agree that the T isn't well managed compared to the buses overall though. If you look at the cost per rider it's much, much more expensive, meaning PAT loses lots of money on operations. Some of that may be because of the Downtown fare free zone, but likely not all of it.

[Moby Hick]

Originally Posted by eschaton

99% of the time I'm only on the T downtown or to the North Shore/Station Square. I haven't gone to the South Hills in ages. But absent break downs I don't see how the T can be slower than walking considering it's grade separated.

If you count the time waiting for a train, plus the walk from the stations to where you want to go, it can be slower than walking even though the pace is faster. At least that's the kind of thing I say to myself if it's a nice day and I want to walk anyway.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Moby Hick

If you count the time waiting for a train, plus the walk from the stations to where you want to go, it can be slower than walking even though the pace is faster. At least that's the kind of thing I say to myself if it's a nice day and I want to walk anyway.

Yeah, I understand. I used to take the T semi-regularly downtown up until September, because my son went to day care in the basement of the U.S. Steel Building, meaning it was just easier to walk to Steel Plaza, take the T two stops to gateway, and go to work. But whenever it wasn't freezing or rainy I was much more liable to walk.

[28CarsLater]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Yeah, I understand. I used to take the T semi-regularly downtown up until September, because my son went to day care in the basement of the U.S. Steel Building, meaning it was just easier to walk to Steel Plaza, take the T two stops to gateway, and go to work. But whenever it wasn't freezing or rainy I was much more liable to walk.

I heard that's a nice day care facility, I had an employee doing the same thing a few years ago and we were very close to Wood Street Station.

[pittsburghaccuweather]

Originally Posted by 28CarsLater

Thanks for the interesting information. Based on what you are saying it sounds as if the "T" has a limited lifespan, so what happens to the roughly 600,000 riders per month who depend on it when it goes kaput?

Incidentally, in 2018 the Port Authority had 741 buses and 83 rail cars.

https://www.portauthority.org/siteas...st/2018asr.pdf

Most likely they will uses buses. The cost to update the electrical and mechanics on the existing lines would be double or triple the cost to extend it out to the airport. Enjoy it while it lasts.

The difference between trolley and standard gauge is the track on trolley gauge is narrower. The cars have a higher center of gravity thus making it much slower. Those 83 rail cars can only be used in Pittsburgh, New Orleans and one rail line in Philly. That’s why most of the old Pittsburgh cars were scrapped. No other transit system in the United States can use them.

The RTA cars on the Cleveland lines are wider, larger and faster than the T. They can be switched with every other city that has light rail and heavy rail.

Trolley gauge was replaced with standard gauge in cities because of speed and a smoother ride. Pittsburgh and New Orleans are all that’s left with trolley gauge. Old infrastructure in Pittsburgh once again.

There was a Pittsburgh based rail company that had a trolley gauge line in the Columbus area. It was over 30 miles long and it served the cities of Marion, Delaware and Columbus Ohio. They scrapped the line in the 1950s because of maintenance costs and evolution of the automobile and roads.

Interesting history on trolley gauge. And streetcar lines.

[USC1986]

Originally Posted by eschaton

99% of the time I'm only on the T downtown or to the North Shore/Station Square. I haven't gone to the South Hills in ages. But absent break downs I don't see how the T can be slower than walking considering it's grade separated.

I agree that the T isn't well managed compared to the buses overall though. If you look at the cost per rider it's much, much more expensive, meaning PAT loses lots of money on operations. Some of that may be because of the Downtown fare free zone, but likely not all of it.

I believe the T is considered the slowest light rail transit in North America.
As someone who used to ride it daily from South Hills Village to downtown ( admittedly 18 years ago), the slow pace was maddening, especially with all of those stops in Beechview.

[Moby Hick]

It's an electrified train running (mostly) on a dedicated right of way. It's going to last until the tunnel fails or self-driving cars get so cheap everyone has one.

[eschaton]

Converting the entire T system into buses is an interesting idea. It would help solve one of the big mistakes with the T - the unused spur at Penn Station which was supposed to directly connect the T and the East Busway. Then you could take the P1/P2 off of surface roads downtown entirely. Though I believe that spur runs under Grant Street (or close to it) meaning the P1/P2 couldn't do the same loops they do now - they'd have to either go to Wood/Gateway/the North Side, or Steel Plaza/First Avenue/points south.

Anyway, as an elevated busway the North Side stops would work fine, and they could drop the line to re-connect with surface routes (or build a big U turn) as needed. South of the city the Blue Line could be merged with - well, basically replace - the South Busway pretty easily. The Red Line through Beechview/Dormont would be stuck as a cruddy surface route, but that's what it is now anyway.

Oh, and I presume you'd need to go full electric when it came to the buses, because I don't think the ventilation in the tunnels is really fit for diesel engines.

[guy2073]

Originally Posted by USC1986

I believe the T is considered the slowest light rail transit in North America.
As someone who used to ride it daily from South Hills Village to downtown ( admittedly 18 years ago), the slow pace was maddening, especially with all of those stops in Beechview.

Pat transit has too many stops. There is no need to have a stop on every street corner.