Declining driving etiquette (Upper St. Clair, Washington, Meadville: day care, calculator, cost)

[ditchdigger]

That's what you're supposed to do, though. On a highway, the left lane is not for prolonged driving; it's for passing. Once you pass slower traffic in the left lane, you merge back right, leaving the left lane clear for faster traffic to pass in the same manner.

True, but what I'm saying is that traffic near the city is usually so heavy that it's not practical to constantly change lanes if you're moving faster than the pace of traffic in the right lane. I think anybody who drives the Parkway often enough realizes what I'm saying. Can you imagine the chaos if half of everyone on the Parkway was constantly changing lanes back and forth?

[zip95]

Originally Posted by ditchdigger

True, but what I'm saying is that traffic near the city is usually so heavy that it's not practical to constantly change lanes if you're moving faster than the pace of traffic in the right lane. I think anybody who drives the Parkway often enough realizes what I'm saying. Can you imagine the chaos if half of everyone on the Parkway was constantly changing lanes back and forth?

What are you talking about??? That's nonsense... Changing lanes is not the problem... the problem is when you disobey the law and completely disrupt the flow of traffic by unilaterally deciding how fast every other car in the fast lane should travel... and then you blame the guy behind you that gets furious

And you can't see a problem with that???

If a parkway sign says pass left stay right, than pass left and stay right

If an on-ramp has a stop sign then stop
If an on-ramp has a yeild sign, then don't stop... yield
If an on-ramp has a merge sign, then don't yield... merge

If a tunnel has a sign that says maintain speed... then maintain speed

and please people... don't stop in the middle of a 4 lane rd to be "polite" and wave people through... you're going to get some one killed.

Here is the golden rule "if you disrupt the normal flow of traffic... you are a menace"

[Tallysmom]

Originally Posted by scottrpriester

I am a member of the SCCA and an international group of German car enthusiats...I regularly participate in events such as auto cross, so I do think I know a bit more about how my car handles and how to make it handle than the average driver. What makes me upset and how I drive my vehicle are two different things. You won't find me attempting to ram my vehicle in to someone's vehicle. You may find me keeping my eyes peeled for someone who did something ridiculous, either to myself or someone else, and confront them.

I think, while you may get angry while driving, you don't suffer from road rage. Road rage is very bad. Getting angry and yelling at morons being stupid isn't road rage, it's venting. Road rage is getting involved in an accident with said moron, pulling him out of his car and beating him senseless. And forgetting that would only be one small light tap, and instead nearly killing him.

Because if you truly actually get road rage -- no matter how well you think you drive, when you have it, you aren't driving well.... you're raging. You can't possibly drive well and "rage". Raging is a total loss of sense.

[ditchdigger]

Just so we're all on the same page, I am, and have been, talking about times of busy traffic--a weekday, say within 15 miles of downtown, and during most of the daylight hours. If you think I'm talking about out in the sticks, or at midnight, we're not on the same page.

Changing lanes is not the problem...

That's right, because nobody does. The left lane moves at one pace, which is faster than the right. That's why it works the way it does. I asked if you could imagine the chaos if it were otherwise. You didn't answer that.

Here is the golden rule "if you disrupt the normal flow of traffic... you are a menace"

If I'm in the left lane, going 10-15 over the limit, it's because that's the pace of traffic in that lane. The "normal flow", if you will. That would, for me, usually be between 65 and 70 in a 55 zone. And if you choose to tailgate me at that speed, you have now placed yourself into the catagory of unsafe drivers.

Say something to convince me that it seves anybody's interests for me to move over so you can go 83.

Going substantially faster than the normal flow is by definiton "abnormal" thus it follows that it's as much, if not more, of a menace as going substantially slower...

On edit: BTW, doncha think it's sort of incongruous to wrap your reasoning around regard for the law about which lane you're driving in while completly disregarding the law about how fast you're allowed to go?

[ditchdigger]

I'm sorry, Scott, I missed this reply earlier.

Originally Posted by scottrpriester

I am a member of the SCCA and an international group of German car enthusiats...I regularly participate in events such as auto cross, so I do think I know a bit more about how my car handles and how to make it handle than the average driver. What makes me upset and how I drive my vehicle are two different things. You won't find me attempting to ram my vehicle in to someone's vehicle. You may find me keeping my eyes peeled for someone who did something ridiculous, either to myself or someone else, and confront them.

That's all well and good, but I sincerely feel that while you may be more than equipped to handle what the other guy does, you have to keep in mind that you're the "other guy" to everybody else. Can everybody else handle (meaning react appropriately, safely), to the way in which you are driving? "Grandma" was mentioned somewhere above. Stop to consider that speed limits, etc. are in place at least partly to keep those with the skill and enthusiasm of Mario Andretti from scaring Grandma into driving up a telephone pole...

[zip95]

Originally Posted by ditchdigger

On edit: BTW, doncha think it's sort of incongruous to wrap your reasoning around regard for the law about which lane you're driving in while completly disregarding the law about how fast you're allowed to go?

No I don't... I think breaking the law such that you disrupt the normal flow of traffic while endangering everyone else is much worse than simple speeding.

Originally Posted by ditchdigger

Say something to convince me that it seves anybody's interests for me to move over so you can go 83.

OK... I'll bite... and BTW, I haven't gone 83 mph since I was in my 20's

How's this for convincing...

By who's authority is ditchdigger allowed to override traffic law voted on by the Pennsylvania State Legislature?

By which divine act of God was ditchdigger given the wisdom and power to unilaterally determine what's in everyones interest?

Your arrogance is breathtaking... People have extensively studied this issue and spent more time than you thinking about it... They have determined that the public interest is served when traffic flow is constant and predictable, not when ditchdigger decides how fast everyone behind him should be traveling. The conclusions were vetted, debated, and voted into law... who the hell are you to make me late, because YOU decided what was in MY best interest.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by ditchdigger

True, but what I'm saying is that traffic near the city is usually so heavy that it's not practical to constantly change lanes if you're moving faster than the pace of traffic in the right lane. I think anybody who drives the Parkway often enough realizes what I'm saying. Can you imagine the chaos if half of everyone on the Parkway was constantly changing lanes back and forth?

Originally Posted by ditchdigger

Just so we're all on the same page, I am, and have been, talking about times of busy traffic--a weekday, say within 15 miles of downtown, and during most of the daylight hours.

That's right, because nobody does. The left lane moves at one pace, which is faster than the right. That's why it works the way it does. I asked if you could imagine the chaos if it were otherwise. You didn't answer that.

Route 28 is different. You have to switch lanes at many places or your commute will take twice the time.

The left lane moves fastest from Route 8 to Millvale, but then you need to get into the right lane near the 40th Street Bridge (before or after, depending) because traffic often backs up in the left lane before the 31st Street Bridge, then you need to get back into the left name because traffic backs up in the right lane before the North Side Off Ramp, and if you're heading into town, you need to quickly swtich into the right lane to catch the ramp to the Vetrans Bridge.

Route 28 is only a pain for those who don't know how to drive it.

[ditchdigger]

No I don't... I think breaking the law such that you disrupt the normal flow of traffic while endangering everyone else is much worse than simple speeding.

You fail to address my point about moving substantantially faster than the normal flow of traffic. If I'm going 65-70 in a 55 zone, I amguilty of "simple speeding" as you put it. How much faster do you want to go?

How's this for convincing...

By who's authority is ditchdigger allowed to override traffic law voted on by the Pennsylvania State Legislature?

By which divine act of God was ditchdigger given the wisdom and power to unilaterally determine what's in everyones interest?

Your arrogance is breathtaking... People have extensively studied this issue and spent more time than you thinking about it...

1. Same authority that allows zip95 to overide laws, I guess.

2. No act of God. But you didn't answer what makes your excessive speed in anybody's interest, did you?

3. Apparently you have. All I said to start the ball rolling on this was an offhand comment that I really don't feel compelled to move over when I'm already speeding, and in further discussion, made clear that I'm talking about moving at the pace of traffic while I am.

They have determined that the public interest is served when traffic flow is constant and predictable,

That's exactly right. That's why speeding even faster than the other speeders is a hazard. You do realize that, don't you?

The conclusions were vetted, debated, and voted into law...

Kinda like speed limits? Oops. I forgot, we ignore them...

who the hell are you to make me late, because YOU decided what was in MY best interest.

Leave earlier.


You're getting a case of road rage sitting in front of your computer...

But really, how about answering the first question above. How much faster than my 65-70 do you want to go in a 55 zone with traffic? Make me understand the reasonableness of your position.

[Hopes]

ditchdigger,

If you're in the left land going slower than me, I'll pass you on the right without hesitation.

[ditchdigger]

If you're in the left land going slower than me, I'll pass you on the right without hesitation.

How fast will you be going?