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Don't forget maintenance, depreciation, insurance, and so on when calculating driving costs. If you don't want to do a bunch of math, the simplest thing to do is use the IRS mileage allowance for business purposes, which in 2010 is 50 cents per mile (that's an estimate of an average, of course, but again it saves you the math). So, for example, we live about 7 miles from where we would park Downtown if we drove. That is a roundtrip of 14 miles, or about $7 a day in 2010. That plus the parking is more than the $8 we spend daily on buses for the two of us.
Don't forget maintenance and depreciation when calculating driving costs. If you don't want to do a bunch of math, the simplest thing to do is use the IRS mileage allowance for business purposes, which in 2010 is 50 cents per mile (that's an estimate of an average, of course, but again it saves you the math). So, for example, we live about 7 miles from where we would park Downtown if we drove. That is a roundtrip of 14 miles, or about $7 a day in 2010. That plus the parking is more than the $8 we spend daily on buses for the two of us.
Not everyone needs to ride a bus to save money or the environment. It's called carpooling.
I don't need the IRS mileage allowance for it to make financial sense for my family.
I know my average yearly maintenance costs and they are very minimal.
The maintenance costs have actual decreased since I started driving into town. When I was a stay at home mother, I did more driving!
If I lived in the East End I'd probably take public transportation to work all the time, because it's free with my work ID. I live south of the the Ft. Pitt/Liberty tunnels, and bussing it takes about an hour and driving it takes less than 30 minutes. I pay out the nose for the cheapest CMU parking, but the convenience factor is worth it. I am a bad American and citizen of the planet, I know.
Last edited by fleetiebelle; 01-16-2010 at 09:05 AM..
It might well be--I was just noting people need to consider more than fuel costs when calculating total driving costs (in fact I believe that right now fuel costs are only around 1/4 of the estimated average total costs--the biggest single item is depreciation).
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Not everyone needs to ride a bus to save money or the environment. It's called carpooling.
I haven't argued otherwise. I do think we tend to underfund public transit in this country, but undoubtedly even with optimal levels of public transit funding lots of people would still drive for lots of their transportation needs, which I think is fine. Given that framework, we should in fact be looking to ways to make our use of cars more efficient, and carpooling is one of those ways.
In fact, what is carpooling but a little informal version of public transit? You have a group using a common vehicle on a specificed route and schedule--that's the same basic deal as public transit.
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So Hopes added:
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The maintenance costs have actual decreased since I started driving into town. When I was a stay at home mother, I did more driving!
And my car depreciates regardless.
Maintenance and depreciation both increase with mileage. Obviously if you are imagining more driving in some other scenario, then that would add to these costs, but I guess I'm not sure what that has to do with the decision whether or not to drive on a trip you know you are making regardless.
If I lived in the East End I'd probably take public transportation to work all the time, because it's free with my work ID. I live south of the the Ft. Pitt/Liberty tunnels, and bussing it takes about an hour and driving it takes less than 30 minutes. I pay out the nose for the cheapest CMU parking, but the convenience factor is worth it. I am a bad American and citizen of the planet, I know.
So as I noted above, if public transit isn't competitive enough on convenience, people won't take it. I honestly don't think that makes you a bad person or citizen.
Now if funding for better public transit comes up for a vote and you vote against it--well, that is a different issue.
Carpooling may work in very limited circumstances, but frankly, I'd rather take the bus! I was in a car pool for three years when my oldest was in middle school. It was a nightmare, to say the least. I won't go into all the details (unless someone wants to hear them, LOL). When my second one went to middle school, I put her on the bus for homebound, and DH generally took her to school on his way to work. It took her ~45 min. to get home from school, 1.6 miles away, but I figured she didn't have anything better to do with her time.
I agree, Katiana. Carpooling with strangers could be a disaster. We carpool within our own family by coordinating our work and school schedules so we can ride together.
I agree, Katiana. Carpooling with strangers could be a disaster. We carpool within our own family by coordinating our work and school schedules so we can ride together.
Yes, we've done that before. I was in a carpool once with one other family that worked well. I feel that's my limit. That middle school carpool I talked about had 5 kids, four families. It was a zoo!
I hate poor drivers and unfortunately, their population is growing. This is not an attack on you specifically ditchdigger, just the very large population of ignorant people who think like you, or more accurately don’t think and believe their viewpoint is all that matters and everyone else can wait for “me”. Why is it so complicated for people who think like you? It is very simple. The law is slower traffic keep right. PERIOD. If a car is driving faster than you, it is your obligation (and common courtesy if you know what that is) to move out of the way if you are blocking traffic or one car. It is or should be common courtesy. Unless you are a cop, how anyone else drives is none of your business. It won’t take them more than a few seconds to pass and then, if you are not smart enough to stay in the middle lane, get back over and try to feel important by making others wait. If someone is driving faster than me, I yield and move out of the way. Just common courtesy and the law. Of course I never stay in the left lane other than to pass, so I very rarely have a car come up behind me. If I am passing someone and a car comes up quickly, I will accelerate some to let them pass and help preserve the flow of traffic. Again, common courtesy (or should be). It is the same as opening the door for a women, any women, even if you don’t know her. How seemingly simple manners can be lost on so many is just another testament to the downward slide of our society.
How often in large backups do you find one person with your attitude (usually going under the speed limit) who just won’t move over, even with 100 cars behind them and plenty of space to move over. In actuality your speed is irrelevant as you are supposed to yield to faster traffic, no matter what or whether you like their speed. No matter how many pass on the right or honk (or otherwise jesture not that I would do that), they still don’t get it and move over. It is obvious they just don’t know any better which is bad enough, or worse just don’t care. IMHO, they should lose their license as it is a privilege, not a right to have a license.
Nothing is more bothersome than the ignorant of the world trying to justify their actions. It is the reason the far left lane in rush hour is actually slower moving than the center lane a lot of times or even the far right lanes except when after just passing an exit (as people merge). It is the people like that that as soon as merging (incorrectly usually) immediately move to the far left lane and just won’t move. And if you flash your lights briefly (as you are supposed to do, drive in Europe and see how common place this is), how they actually think you are the stupid one and won’t move over for anyone and may also slam on their brakes to show how dumb we are (yeah). And while were talking about merging, when you are the one merging, it is YOUR responsibility to merge without disrupting traffic flow. Again, you would think this is common courtesy and common sense but again, in the new world, you would be wrong. And if courtesy and the law and a bare minimum of respect for your fellow man was not enough, when clocked, you speed is 2-3 mph less for every lane farther right you are in.
We can go on and on about this but in reality it won’t make much difference unfortunately. People either understand what courtesy is and how really simple the rules of the road are or they don’t or they just don’t care about anyone but themselves.
To all those frustrated out there, many feel your pain. Unfortunately with the attitudes of so many, it will not change much anytime soon. But try to think of someone other than yourself. All of us. Repeat after me: You are not special. I am the same as everyone else. I don't receive or deserve special treatment in traffic or life. I cannot and should not impose my will on others. I am one small cog in a very large wheel. Have a great day.
Location: About 10 miles north of Pittsburgh International
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How often in large backups do you find one person with your attitude (usually going under the speed limit) who just won’t move over, even with 100 cars behind them and plenty of space to move over.
Aw Geez. I thought this was over.
Just as a recap, I said initially:
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Regarding my personal style, yes, when I'm going 10-15 miles over the limit in the left lane, in traffic, I really don't feel much of an obligation to move over to let somebody else pass, and the nearer they are to my rear bumper, the more strongly I feel that way.
I further clarified my position by specifiying that the circumstances I'm thinking about are places like the Parkway, where the speed limit is 55, within 15 miles of town, during daylight traffic conditions, not on some rural interstate with sparse traffic and the speed limit already 65, and I'm certainly not Grandma putzing along at 50 in the left lane. (And, if I'm behind Grandma doing 50 in the left lane, hey, I'm with you, I'm getting frustrated too. I think the difference is that, in my mind, if I respond to that by doing something unsafe, I, not the slowpoke, am the responsible party.)
In the circumstances I'm talking about, there's no way everybody who's going marginally faster is continually shifting from left to right, mixing in and out of the traffic that's going marginally slower, just so somebody who feels the need to go 80+ can save 3 minutes and 45 seconds. It doesn't happen. It just doesn't. The right lane moves at something closer to the speed limit, and the left moves somewhat faster, and that is what constitutes the normal, undisrupted, flow of traffic.
So let's get over thinking that my attitude is "disruptive to traffic".
But hey, just so I'm not confused, you want to go 85 under the circumstances I've described, and you find yourself stuck behind me going a sedate 67, you believe that I'm the problem, right?
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The law is slower traffic keep right. PERIOD. If a car is driving faster than you, it is your obligation (and common courtesy if you know what that is) to move out of the way if you are blocking traffic or one car. It is or should be common courtesy. Unless you are a cop, how anyone else drives is none of your business.
And once again, how is it that the law about keeping to the right is so much more important than the law that says how fast you, and I, may go? Or the law regarding keeping a safe following distance?
And I'll argue that if your driving poses a safety threat to me or my loved ones, yes, it is my business, whether we're sharing the same stretch of highway at the moment or not. That's why we have laws, and police who we pay to enforce them.
Let's discuss a hypothetical situation--I'm in front, you're close behind me, and behind you is a cop, in an unmarked car, so neither of us knows it's a cop. I'm in the left lane, going 67 in a 55 zone, and you two follow me for a mile or so before I remember how persuasive your argument here has been, and my guilt and remorse make me find a space in the right lane to move into, so that you can pass. You accelerate to 85. Which one of us is the cop going to pull over? I'm really interested in hearing your answer.
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We can go on and on about this but in reality it won’t make much difference unfortunately. People either understand what courtesy is and how really simple the rules of the road are or they don’t or they just don’t care about anyone but themselves.
To all those frustrated out there, many feel your pain. Unfortunately with the attitudes of so many, it will not change much anytime soon. But try to think of someone other than yourself. All of us. Repeat after me: You are not special. I am the same as everyone else. I don't receive or deserve special treatment in traffic or life. I cannot and should not impose my will on others. I am one small cog in a very large wheel. Have a great day.
(I bolded that cause it's sooo on point.)
Courtesy, rules, not being "special"? Those concepts weigh just as heavily in favor of moving no faster than the rest of traffic, don't they?
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I'm really interested in hearing your answer.
