Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha
We expect our president to have a consistent US foreign policy. It seems clear that we do not have one, we differ to whatever the UN decides our policy should be, and we will not take any action until the UN members agree on one.
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That's just utterly
absurd. Because we take position A in situation B means we don't have
any policy with regard to situation C?
We have a foreign policy. We don't go playing Cowboy of the World of our own volition. Not. Our. Place.
But we were asked for our
support here, a coalition of countries agreed a specific action (a no-fly zone) was the best course of action, and we agreed to back that up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLily24
Why is it assumed that the rebels would be an improvement over Qaddafi?
Surely we all do remember a little group called the Taliban.
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I don't think that's assumed. At this point, what the rebels are, are
innocent civilians. Beyond protecting innocent civilian lives, the U.S. (or any other country as far as I can see), hasn't taken any position whatsoever on leadership there. They're not even requiring Qaddafi to step down in order to call off the no-fly zone, just to back off and stop killing citizens.
No-fly zone could be canceled if Libya pulls back forces - CNN.com
"Even as Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said the ultimate goal for the U.S. was to see Libya's president cede power, a senior administration official says the U.N.-mandated no-fly zone and military action to support it would not necessarily last until Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi steps down. This official, who spoke on background because of the diplomatic sensitivity of the issue, said that "right now, we're focused on stopping the violence.""
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter
You're absolutely correct, and it's the one thing about this president that i hate even though i voted for him. He's a damn hawk....far hawkish than Bush ever was. I sensed that he was even before he was elected, but i didn't want to believe it.
Before i vote for him again, i want to see a little more dovish behavior first cuz i'm tired of these damn wars.
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I'm stumped by how supporting a no-fly zone could be considered more hawkish than invading a sovereign nation with tens of thousands of ground troops with absolutely no provocation whatsoever.
Can you compare and contrast the hawkish behavior of both Obama and Bush for me so I can understand what's forming your opinion? It's possible I might agree with you if I saw what you were seeing, but at this moment, I don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha
Right and wrong is black and white issue. Either the no-fly zone was the right action to take, or it wasn't.
If our foreign policy is to defer to the decisions of the UN before taking any action, then we are rudderless and have no foreign policy at all.
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Again, I am mystified as to how this one situation implies a lack of overall foreign policy. Deferring to the UN before taking any action when we are not directly attacked, but the world's nations are considering taking collective action, is not the same as having no foreign policy. That's just retarded.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake
Yet in this case we have the worst possible scenario, US troops in harm's way, under the command and at the mercy of the hopelessly incompetant UN. Doesn't anyone remember just what a cluster Clinton got us into in Somalia?
The proper answer for the UN and others would be to say the US isn't going to play this time. Arabs killing Arabs in Lybia isn't our fault, and we won't waste American lives and money trying to civilize that part of the world. Instead, we have president spineless bobbing his head and going along with whatever the UN wants.
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There are no U.S. troops in harm's way, we aren't invading and we aren't trying to "civilize" anyone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter
They are in the backyard of some very wealthy countries. And if those countries have so much righteous indignation at the slaughter of Arabs then they can take their Italian, German, Spanish,French and British asses over there and take care of the problem themselves. And since the Arab League approves a no-fly zone, then they can pay for it.  |
My friend, that's what's happening. The French and British are taking the lead here. The Danes have committed fighter jets. The Italians have committed air strips and bases. So far, we've done Zero.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by desertdetroiter
Americans are TIRED OF BAILING OUT THE WHOLE DAMN WORLD!!! Don't you get that? Go over there yourself and join the rebels...they need your help. It is not the job of the USA to pick winners and losers in the civil wars of sovereign nations.
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My initial reaction was exactly the same as yours. But I've had some time to gather more information and
watch what's
actually taking place, and I've come around to a different position. It's purely speculation on my part, I admit, but I'm getting the feeling that this is going to be similar to the Somali pirate deal, where Obama sent the military in and, slam, bang, snipers took them out and we came home. Quick and dirty. Crisis over.
So long as we are taking a
back seat to other nations and are merely offering to lend support
if needed, I'm starting to see this as a stunningly brilliant political move on Obama's part. We're showing our allies that we have their backs like they've had ours in the recent past, but we aren't taking the reins here. At the end of the day, I'm going to bet we don't actually involve a single plane or shoot a single bullet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter
My point exactly....it's NOT our place to say. But enforcing a no-fly zone is explicitly picking the rebels in that fight. That's not your right to do. And if Ghaddafi wins, we'll look like fools.
No thanks. We look like big enough fools in Iraq and Afghanistan without picking up a new locale to look idiotic in.
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As I said above, we aren't picking the side of "rebels", we're responding to a request from our allies in the neighboring Arab nations to protect
civilians. We're buying a lot of good will at very little cost so far.
When I see ground troops and hundreds of U.S. military deaths, I'll change my mind again.
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