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The entire point I was making is that he is not a true socialist. Again someone lacking in the comprehension dept.
I completely comprehend your point, the contradiction still stands. Saying someone is "somewhat socialistic" is basically idiotic when you preface it by saying that he's in the pocket of big money. You've admitted that you don't really know what's at stake in the conversation though, so there's that much.
The usuals will argue this in their attempt to muddy the waters and shift the focus.
Shift the focus to what? Progressivism is a reformist position, Marxism is not. Progressivism does not entail public ownership of the means of production, Marxism does. Progressivism does not envision a classless society free of private property, Marxism does. Do you understand that? Do you do anything except cheerlead other people's points while contributing nothing of substance yourself?
Here are the ten pillars of communism.....YOU decide!
1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc.
Zbigniew Brzezinski advisor to carter, clinton and obama.....""This is a form of Socialism known as fascism, and it will be the type of world government the power elite plans ultimately to bring about and control. In this government, the power elite will control politicians who will become government leaders who will promulgate laws, rules and regulations favorable to certain transnational corporations"""
As an ardent admirer of Marx, Benito Mussolini (1883-1945) called his version of Marxist socialism "Fascism" Instead of nationalization--government ownership--of private business, Mussolini advocated government control of business via complete bureaucratic regulation.
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Corporatism, also known as corporativism, is a system of economic, political, or social organization that views a community as a body based upon organic social solidarity and functional distinction and roles among individuals. The term corporatism is based on the Latin word "corpus" meaning "body". Formal corporatist models are based upon the contract of corporate groups, such as agricultural, business, ethnic, labor, military, patronage, scientific, or religious affiliations, into a collective body.
One of the most prominent forms of corporatism is economic tripartism involving negotiations between business, labour, and state interest groups to set economic policy.
Corporatism is related to the sociological concept of structural functionalism. Corporate social interaction is common within kinship groups such as families, clans and ethnicities. Aside from humans, certain animal species are known to exhibit strong corporate social organization, such as penguins. In nature, cells in organisms are recognized as involving corporate organization and interaction.
Corporatism has been utilized by many ideologies across the political spectrum, including: absolutism, capitalism, fascism, liberalism, progressivism, reactionism, social democracy, socialism, and syndicalism.
Corporatism aka fascism owing to the corporatist structures created by Mussolini's regime as well as in the latter years of the Third Reich under Albert Speer's direction. Corporatism was viewed by some as an appropriate strategy to prevent worker unrest, as well as a potentially and effective economic strategy. Franklin D. Roosevelt was one such proponent. While Roosevelt was not dictator- he declared a loathing for authoritarianism - his liberal corporatism was part of his vision for a "third way", reflected in the New Deal.
There were a factions within Italian Fascism on both the left, center, and the right. . The "Fascist left" included Angelo Oliviero Olivetti, Sergio Panunzio, and Edmondo Rossoni, who were committed to advancing national syndicalism as a replacement for parliamentary liberalism in order to modernize the economy and advance the interests of workers and the common people.
A key element in the creation of fascism was the fusion of agendas of nationalists on the political right with Sorelian syndicalists on the left, around the outbreak of World War I. Sorelian syndicalism, unlike other ideologies on the left, held an elitist view that the morality of the working-class needed to be raised. The Sorelian concept of the positive nature of social war and its insistence on moral revolution led some syndicalists to believe that war was the ultimate manifestation of social change and moral revolution.
The events of the Great Depression resulted in an international surge of fascism and the creation of multiple fascist regimes and regimes that adopted fascist policies. The most important new fascist regime was Nazi Germany (National Socialists), under the leadership of Adolf Hitler. With the rise of Hitler and the Nazis to power in 1933, and the Nazis mobilized the country for war, with expansionist territorial aims against multiple countries.
During the Great Depression, Mussolini promoted active state intervention in the economy. He denounced the contemporary "supercapitalism" that he claimed began in 1914 as a failure due to its alleged decadence, support for unlimited consumerism and intention to create the "standardization of humankind". However, Mussolini claimed that the industrial developments of earlier "heroic capitalism" were valuable and continued to support private property as long as it was productive. With the onset of the Great Depression, Fascist Italy began large-scale state intervention into the economy, establishing the Institute for Industrial Reconstruction (Istituto per la Ricostruzione Industriale, IRI), a giant state-owned firm and holding company that provided state funding to failing private enterprises. The IRI was made a permanent institution in Fascist Italy in 1937, pursued Fascist policies to create national autarky, and had the power to take over private firms to maximize war production. Nazi Germany similarly pursued an economic agenda with the aims of autarky and rearmament and imposed protectionist policies, including forcing the German steel industry to use lower-quality German iron ore rather than superior-quality imported iron.
Fascists opposed the laissez-faire economic policies that were dominant in the era prior to the Great Depression. After the Great Depression began, many people from across the political spectrum blamed laissez-faire capitalism, and fascists promoted their ideology as a "third way" between capitalism and communism.
Fascists declared their opposition to finance capitalism, interest charging, and profiteering. Nazis and other anti-Semitic fascists considered finance capitalism a "parasitic" "Jewish conspiracy". Fascist governments introduced price controls, wage controls and other types of economic interventionist measures.
Benito Mussolini promised a "social revolution" that would "remake" the Italian people. According to Patricia Knight, this was only achieved in part. The people who primarily benefited from Italian fascist social policies were members of the midde and lower-middle classes, who filled jobs in the vastly expanded government workforce, which grew from about 500,000 to 1,000,000 jobs in 1930 alone. Health and welfare spending grew dramatically under Italian fascism, with welfare rising from 7% of the budget in 1930 to 20% in 1940
ever heard of the socialist Fabian Society...the beginning of the liberal reforms..ie the progressives.....
ever heard of HG wells.. a member of the Fabian society
fascism has a long history in American politics, spanning back to Woodrow Wilson and Franklin Delano Roosevelt. You can even finds fascist tendencies within the presidencies of John F. Kennedy, Lyndon B. Johnson and Bill Clinton as each tried to create an “all-caring, all-powerful, all-encompassing” state. And you can see more recent signs of fascist ideology in the economic ideas of Hillary Clinton, John Kerry and Al Gore.
Joseph Stalin, the General Secretary of the Communist Party in the Soviet Union, found it beneficial to label all ideas which he did not agree with as fascist; this included socialists who were disloyal to Moscow and, of course, the political right. Those loyal to his social doctrine also began to see communism and fascism on opposite ends when, yet, both are in fact socialist in nature.
Liberal Fascism is different from fascism of the past because today’s left are pacifists rather than militarists; their plan is to nanny, not to bully. Still, this method can be just as politically hazardous.
“Simply because the nanny state wants to hug you doesn’t mean it’s not tyrannical when you don’t want to be hugged,”
A man who shares his wealth is admirable.
A man who wants to compel you to share your wealth is a scoundrel.
A man who wants government to compel you to share your wealth is president.
Shift the focus to what? Progressivism is a reformist position, Marxism is not. Progressivism does not entail public ownership of the means of production, Marxism does. Progressivism does not envision a classless society free of private property, Marxism does. Do you understand that? Do you do anything except cheerlead other people's points while contributing nothing of substance yourself?
Have you seen the direction this country is going? Put the bottle down and your vision might clear up enough to learn something. FACISM is a product of Marxism. Obama is operating more and more under the flag of Facism sprung up from his Marxist roots. GE, GM, Fannie and Freddie, GS and Wall Street in general are ALL in his pocket. You can call it Facism or State Capitalism (AKA Communism).
""Fascism is a system in which the government leaves nominal ownership of the means of production in the hands of private individuals but exercises control by means of regulatory legislation and reaps most of the profit by means of heavy taxation. In effect, fascism is simply a more subtle form of government ownership than is socialism."" Mussolini
Here is the start of the progessives in america......1888, the year [when socialist] Edward Bellamy's novel Looking Backward burst on the American scene.” Set in the year 2000, this futuristic book depicts a utopian society run with the hierarchical efficiency of a military battalion. All workers in this idealized world belong to a unified “industrial army” that labors within the confines of an economy controlled by a coterie of central planners who are deemed to be more capable of fostering prosperity and productivity than is a free marketplace. A preacher in the story lauds the earthly paradise, while the population at large looks back upon the “age of individualism” with a blend of amusement and derision.
Bellamy's book became immensely influential, selling hundreds of thousands of copies. It was very effective at hitting th hearts of idealistic young people who were moved by the author's vision of a socialist utopia. All across America, “Nationalist Clubs” were formed to advocate for “the nationalization of industry and the promotion of the brotherhood of humanity.”
Its not hard to understand; The progressives (aka todays liberals which took over the democratic party) have been in bed with the elite since the late 1880's................these are the same people that created the fed, the same people that passed the income tax amendment in 1913, the same people that supported the european socialists and the nasi's, and the fascists
progressives have helped in some areas (child labor laws, etc) but their sole intent is to 'socialize' the united states, to either "nationalize" the entire country and its corporations (main stream socialist way), or to so over regulate the corporations (the fascist way)
progressives (aka liberals) were the ones who supported hitler, progressives are owned by the european banks
Up until ww2, fascist and progressives were the same thing....But they dropped the term fascist due to public outcry and stuck with the term progressive ever since. Aside from being a complete nut of a dictator, Hitler had extremely liberal political policies and highly regulatory government agencies. He even had unviersal health care.
H.G. Wells was of the greatest influences on the progressive mind in the twentieth century (and, it turns out, the inspiration for Huxley's Brave New World). Wells didn't coin the phrase as an indictment, but as a badge of honor. Progressives must become "liberal fascists" and "enlightened Nazis," he told the Young Liberals at Oxford in a speech in July 1932.
Wells called his political views socialist. He was for a time a member of the socialist Fabian Society. The Fabian Society is a British socialist movement, whose purpose is to advance the principles of Democratic socialism via gradualist and reformist, rather than revolutionary, means................ Wells believed in the theory of eugenics. In 1904 he discussed a survey paper by Francis Galton, co-founder of eugenics, saying "I believe ... It is in the sterilisation of failure, and not in the selection of successes for breeding, that the possibility of an improvement of the human stock lies."
George Bernard Shaw a dedicated Socialist and a charter member of the Fabian Society. After visiting the USSR in the 1930s where he met Stalin, Shaw became a supporter of the Stalinist USSR. On 11 October 1931 he broadcast a lecture on American national radio telling his audience that any 'skilled workman...of suitable age and good character' would be welcomed and given work in the Soviet Union. Shaw was a proponent of the theory of "eugenics" that believed in the improvement of the human race through selective reproduction. Advocates of this theory feared society was at risk due to a declining gene pool because inferior people were breeding much more rapidly than the better ones. They advocated for public policies that would prevent this. Shaw claimed only eugenics could save mankind. Shaw even suggested people should have to regularly appear before a board to justify their existence
This is why the fake liberals of today call themselves "liberal". They hijacked the word after progressive was tainted with Hitler, Eugenics, population control, economic fascism, etc.
In a laudatory review of Roosevelt's 1933 book Looking Forward, Mussolini wrote, "Reminiscent of Fascism is the principle that the state no longer leaves the economy to its own devices.… Without question, the mood accompanying this sea change resembles that of Fascism."
Where socialism sought totalitarian control of a society’s economic processes through direct state operation of the means of production, fascism sought that control indirectly, through domination of nominally private owners. Where socialism nationalized property explicitly, fascism did so implicitly, by requiring owners to use their property in the “national interest”—that is, as the autocratic authority conceived it. (Nevertheless, a few industries were operated by the state.) Where socialism abolished all market relations outright, fascism left the appearance of market relations while planning all economic activities. Where socialism abolished money and prices, fascism controlled the monetary system and set all prices and wages politically. In doing all this, fascism denatured the marketplace. Entrepreneurship was abolished. State ministries, rather than consumers, determined what was produced and under what conditions.
hitler came into power as the candidate of 'hope and change',, his plans slowly moved from being helpful to dreadful..........
simple things like 'nationalizing' corporations, removing the guns from the people,,blame the jews (or the modern version 'the zionists'),,duty of the state(government) to PROVIDE for the people,,division of profits (redistribution of wealth), nationalized health care, ,,,, DO THESE SOUND FAMILIAR, YES THE ARE THE TALKING POINTS OF THE DNC AND MOVEON.ORG....THEY ARE ALSO PART OF HITLERS 25 POINTS
lenin also said this...."A system of licensing and registration is the perfect device to deny gun ownership to the people"
"Gun registration is not enough. Waiting periods are only a step. Registration is only a step. The prohibition of private firearms is the goal." Janet Reno
"This year will go down in history. For the first time,
a civilised nation has full gun registration!
Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient,
and the world will follow our lead into the future!" Adolf Hitler
"National Socialism will use its own revolution for establishing a new world order." ...hitler
"If the personal freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution inhibit the government's ability to govern the people, we should look to limit those guarantees." bill clinton
"A Marxist begins with his prime truth that all evils are caused by the exploitation of the proletariat by the capitalists. From this he logically proceeds to the revolution to end capitalism, then into the third stage of reorganization into a new social order of the dictatorship of the proletariat, and finally the last stage -- the political paradise of communism." Saul alinski
the history is there, just because you dont like that people like mussilini and hitler tarnished the name of progressives, with Eugenics, population control, economic fascism, etc.... doesnt mean it didnt happen....
You realize Mussolini was fundamentally opposed to Marxism, right?
No he wasn't. Facism is rooted in Marxism. He couldn't be opposed to something that he incorporated into his ideas. If he was really opposed to Marxism he would have been a Capitalist. That is the true polar opposite.
Socialist. Redistribution of wealth and nearly complete government control over markets and production. They are politically motivated, so they also have strong censorship and do not protect freedom of speech or expression that would oppose or discredit the communist party.
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Again someone lacking in the comprehension dept.
