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I am not. On mother's day a child was baptized at my church. The parents were boyfriend and girlfriend. Why do they feel no shame? I am so confused...
Is this something to celebrate? I think every kid deserves an ADULT as a parent. So am I wrong?
First, are you sure all your ancestors were married? It's highly unlikely, no, it's rather impossible Do you feel shame now?
Since when a piece of paper from a county clerk makes anyone an adult? Why should I feel shame for not getting a marriage certification from government/church, etc.? Two adults can work around procreation issues without anointed middlemen here on Earth or there up in the sky (highly unlikely). Remember, according to your creed, NOTHING happens without knowledge of sweet baby Jesus, if he knew about it and did nothing to stop it, it's OK with sweet baby Jesus, it's a part of the big, Grand, MAGNIFICENT plan. If it's OK with sweet baby Jesus, why it's not OK with you? Are you one of those Satan worshipers Pat Robertson was blaming Katrina on? I would respect a marriage tradition if it was an integral part of larger&older societal traditions, but traditions (and society for that matter) are dead (rather they never been born in the US), reality, views, habits, preferences, etc., etc., etc. of wage slaving biomass is being programmed by a handful of corporate&government marketeers, mass cult jocks & social control specialists maximizing master' returns on investments and plebeian's docility. I don't feel sacred trepidation while thinking about any institution of the society, quite the opposite is true. There is such a word as "alienation", but I'm not in mood to elaborate on that.
I really don't care if you and alikes you are not OK with unbranded people having kids. As long as they can take care of them, and even if they don't, it's part of life. You are not OK with that then drag yourself to a county clerk and one of those sterile economy chapels. I'm 100% OK with that.
Last edited by RememberMee; 05-13-2011 at 02:37 AM..
I am not. On mother's day a child was baptized at my church. The parents were boyfriend and girlfriend. Why do they feel no shame? I am so confused...
Is this something to celebrate? I think every kid deserves an ADULT as a parent. So am I wrong?
So you think it's OK if only one of the parents is an adult?
A shame society is one in which the primary device for gaining control over children and maintaining control over adults is the inculcation of shame and the complementary threat of ostracism...
Should a woman who is raped yet decides to give birth and raise her child with love feel shame? I'm too tired to go on.
I have no issue at all with unmarried couples having children as long as they are good and responsible parents,love their children and teach them to grow up as responsible and decent human beings.
A piece of paper does not a good parent make. I was living with now Hubby for almost 20 years when we got married and in those almost two decades we could have had quite a few kids. As it happened we have never wanted them but being married would have made NO difference to how we raised them whatsoever. They would have been loved, appreciated and we would have ensured they were brought up to be courteous, thoughtful and educated.
Most people I know have kids outside of wedlock WITHIN long term stable relationships. So bloody what ?
There is no longer a stigma attached to being a "bastard" ( and that evil term reflected badly on the bullies and self righteous jerks using it rather than the kid IMO) in most places.
Marriage is not for everyone. I myself would have quite happily remained "living in sin" with Hubby for the rest of my life. It has made no difference to us whatsoever. We loved each other before and we love each other now.
What is important to children is love, discipline and the environment they are raised in. And this can be provided by ANY loving couple ( same sex included) or even just people who love you ( be they grand-parents, uncles and aunts, foster/adoptive parents).
Being a parent is a the most important job in life in a way so I do not see what a piece of paper has to do with it if you have the right frame of mind and are willing to out the work in. It's about attitude not legal certificates.
My parents were married when I was born and they divorced when I was 4. How is that better ? Married parents can make the most appalling parents .
A little piece of paper is never going to make you a decent parent. You either have it or you do not.
And if there is still a stigma attached in backwards parts of the world about a child's parents' legal status then quite frankly these bullies and morons are the ones we should be dealing with because THEY are the problem not the other way around.
Children should be taught their worth from an early age so they know that prejudice is a sign of weakness, fear and understanding. And that people who are judgemental and bullying should be ignored and reviled rather than feared and "respected".
Social ostracisation should be a thing of the Dark Ages and something we should all be deeply ashamed of , rather than the perpetuation of an archaic and quite frankly antedeluvian mode of thinking ( or lack of thinking might be more accurate).
Last edited by Mooseketeer; 05-13-2011 at 05:38 AM..
What is the point of marriage these days? No seriously, what point does it serve, other than certain tax and other gov't benefits?
It's not as if once a couple gets married, they have provided with a wealth on knowledge on how to properly raise children. An unmarried couple can raise a child just as well as a married couple. a piece of paper that states you are legally married will not automatically alter how you decide to raise children. there are married couples who suck at child rearing and there are unmarried couples that produce wonderful, well adjusted children
You can't even use the "stability of the child" argument considering the high divorce rates. These days, married couples are just as likely to break up as long term, unmarried couples. It takes a bit longer w/ a married couple, but in the end, the results are the same: the child is no longer living w/ both parents.
There's zero guarantee that a married couple can afford to raise a child more so than an unmarried couple can. There are married couple barely making ends meet and there are unmarried couples w/ cash to spare to give their kids whatever they want
Honestly, what do you get out of marriage that you can't get out of a long term relationship w/o the "marriage" label? The only things I can think of are:
-tax benefits
-insurance benefits (though I think LT couple w/ kids can get as good as rates as married couples, not sure)
-access to a sick/injured loved ones (though unmarried couples can get the same in many situations)
-ease of divvying up property and assets when you get divorced
I can't think of anything a married couple could gain that an unmarried couple can't have that's not tied to some gov't related benefits. Take the gov't out of it and there is really no difference between a married and unmarried couple other than a piece of paper
To answer the question, no, I see absolutely nothing wrong w/ people having kids outside of marriage. marriage doesn't guarantee stability, a loving home, or even good parenting.
I truly think that, in this day in age, where we don't need to track the lineage of nobility for the purpose of passing down lands, where we no longer vilify illegitimate children, and no longer vilify those who get divorced, marriage isn't needed. It's just a cultural ritual we're loathed to get rid of. I don't see the point of it at all outside of the gov't benefits.
For the majority of my life, I assumed my parents were married. Why wouldn't I, they loved each other and, other than a short period of discord, they were together until my mom died. I figured the reason my mom had a different last name from my dad was because she immigrated to the US under her maiden name and changing it would cause some issues w/ her green card.
I wasn't until I was in my twenties did I realize that my parents were not married. no clue why, didn't bother to ask. I don't look back on my life and think "well, this would have been better had they been married" or "the reason this part of my life sucked so much is because my parents weren't married". nothing in my life would have changed had they been married. I highly doubt they would have raised me any differently if some random judge or pastor had declared them "husband and wife". I doubt they could have loved each other more had they been married. in the long run, being marriage does little to affect who you are, how much you love your SO, and how you raise your child(ren)
1. I think it's much better if parents are married before they have children and stay that way.
2. I know a number of people in long-term committed relationships who are raising children together but either don't aprove of or don't believe in marriage, and I don't think they're doing any less good a job of raising their kids than the married parents I know.
3. We tend to think that people are better off waiting until they are better established in their careers, etc., to have children. This ignores the fact that many people in that position correctly perceive that they have pretty much no future, so why wait. Society needs to remedy this.
4. I'm pretty sure nothing I could ever do would get people to wait until marriage to have children.
I don't think marriage per se is a requirement for having children. Nor is it a requirement for a child to grow up well (whatever that means). But I think a two-parent household IS very important. There is plenty of data that shows how badly most single parent households do, especially with low income.
Any father, married or not, that abandons his children without complete approval from the mother, should face civil and financial penalties.
Any couple choosing to have children should have a strong emotional foundation and reasonable financial security.
I think all tax treatment, good or bad, related to marriage should go away. ALL of them.
I am not. On mother's day a child was baptized at my church. The parents were boyfriend and girlfriend. Why do they feel no shame? I am so confused...
Is this something to celebrate? I think every kid deserves an ADULT as a parent. So am I wrong?
What should they be ashamed of exactly?
I was unaware that entering into a marriage is the only way to be an adult, as I know plenty of adults, both in wisdom and age who have children without being married. Their children are doing fine, and growing up to be good citizens, so what exactly is there to be ashamed of?
Being married and being responsible is not the same thing, you can be one without the other. You can be horribly immature and a very bad parent if you are married, just as easily as if you're not married.
So pray tell, why the confusion?
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Do you feel shame now?
