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Yet you make excuses for the black community by stating they have phonological disorders that only speech paths can correct? You don't even know what a phonological disorder is, LOL. Phonological differences (as seen in bilingual speakers) is not the same as thing as a phonological disorder. Stop making excuses for blacks.
But your biggest beef is the articulation errors made by groups who are ESL, i.e., hispanics and Asians. Your comparison is bogus when taking into account that the vast majority of American blacks grew up with only English spoken in the home, unlike hispanics and Asians. If you want to compare apples to apples, then compare the overwhelmingly pervasive articulation and grammatical errors made by blacks across the country to the articulation and grammatical errors made by rural Southern whites in say, Appalachia. Both sound equally ignorant.
That's exactly my point as well. You cannot compare the "ax" situation to problems with people who are learning English AFTER they learn another language.
I could tell he was black right away too, without any visual cues. (I was listening to the video without looking cause I've been using my computer eyes-closed lately.)
When I was blind, I could often (not always) tell someone's race not based on how they were using English but by the texture of their voice. It's not a fail-proof method but I do think there are general differences in black voices and white voices and mixed voices on a purely biological level that go beyond dialect--just as there are general differences in skin complexion that go beyond cultural identity.
I think its his intonation. Its a pitch change in a word or phrase. If he was raised around African Americans in a black community it will be hard to change that. Its the first thing that comics who mimic people learn about their subject.
I also think the the author of the book is wrong telling people to "code change." Language is like good posture or perfect technique you have to use perfect English all the time until you can notice when you are not using it.
I also take issue with anyone who believes perfect English is all that is standing between African Americans and the road to riches.
Originally posted by ozzie679
Is saying "y'all" or "ain't" appropriate for a a job interview?
Oh definitely not. I don't even use y'all myself in regular speech. Something in me just can't bring myself to do it. But I don't cringe when I hear it either. Other grammar issues, however, bug me to no end, like misusing do and don't as in "She don't know nothing" <<shudder>>
During my freshman year at college, I was constantly embarrasing myself by using the colloquialisms of my south Chicago neighborhood. My roomates goodnatureadly "teased" me out of them!
I actually don't mind "y'all" I think it's a very useful contraction for "you all"--and I'm from the North. But I draw the line at aint <<shudder>>
LOL I'm from the south and "ain't" bothers me, too! I only say it if I'm being sarcastic or joking around. Unfortunately, my husband was raised to think it's okay to say it in general, so I'm around it more than I'd like to be.
appologies for not having read the entire thread, but I have a take on this that may be unusual.
As an educated white woman, who has worked with both educated and less educated black women and men, I have a personal "rule of thumb".
I believe that because "ax" is such a prevelant pronunciation in the black community, and because even the most educated black people will ocassionally use the term when a conversation is highly emotional, it is the polite thing to do, to accept it without question, and even to use it myself (in the same conversation) to avoid embarrasing the person I am speaking with. I value proper english, but cannot honestly fault people for using their native "dialect".
But this is a very condescending and insulting mindset and borderline racist. Basically you're saying that black people are too stupid to pronounce a 3 letter word the proper way. It's not a native "dialect" any more than white people mispronouncing wash as "warsh" is. They are both equally ignorant and incorrect. To act as if it's okay is treating black people like they are incapable of speaking correctly. And what about the millions of black Americans who pronounce "ask" correctly, are they special? I believe everyone regardless of skin color can speak proper English and you should too.
Who can tell me why the words "highly controversial" appear in the title of this thread?
Excellent point, and I agree. It's as if it's highly controversial to expect black Americans to speak proper English, as if they are incapable of it. That mindset is extremely condescending and borderline racist. No one would consider it "highly controversial" to correct a white person when they mispronounce wash as "warsh." It's as if society thinks that black people are incapable of properly pronouncing words, so we must take pity on them. That's offensive, imho.
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Do you cringe when you hear some of the more odd contractions, like "must've"?
