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Personally, I feel that what two consenting adults do in private is really none of my business, unless and until something occurs that makes it my business.
But let's be honest, the level of hypocrisy here is off the charts ... homosexuals engaging in a constant attack and bashing of traditional heterosexual values, with particular emphasis on Christians is an overt and unmistakable theme. There you are, with your billboards, magazines, TV Ads, protests, and legislative actions ... forcing your extreme 10%er minority views on the 90%er majority ... while simultaneously shouting "mind your own business".
Moreover, the subject video paints a poor image of the homosexual community in general ... being clownish ... in poor taste, utilizing foul language, incorporating what appears to be under-aged children, and going out of it's way to offend 2 Billion members of the Christian community around the world .... all while labeling anyone who is offended, homophobes. And these are the typical tactics of this minority agenda being pushed relentlessly upon the majority, and in self righteous indignation, you cry foul if the majority predictably pushes back.
All of this wrapped in lie ... claiming that the goal is simply to secure equal rights, fair treatment, and acceptance. And unless one actually believes that the most effective means of fostering cooperation is to thumb your noses at, and give your middle finger to the very society you expect acceptance and fairness from ... such claims are pure BS.
After reading through the entire thread, I was astounded by the vileness of some of the responses, while left scratching my head at the preposterous nature of some others.
I try to use examples in support of my comments when possible, so let's do that:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strel
Back on topic...is it any wonder that gays might get a little upset that so many people despise them and want to deny them equal rights?
I'd be pissed too. I might even get mad enough to engage in (gasp) satire, Gawd forbid.
I don't suppose it would ever occur to you that a person's homosexuality is not the primary source of society's heartburn ... but the lack of manners and decorum so frequently demonstrated by homosexuals ... including the obligatory bashing of other's beliefs ... even if done obscurely such as the use of "Gawd"?
Or the more direct, broad brush insult and insinuations of racism and bigotry:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnUnidentifiedMale
Ha. The notion that the anti-gay crowd could ever be "endeared" by gays is just laughable. They'd have separate drinking fountains for gays if they could get away with it, and you know it.
Taken one step further ... not only is society bigoted and racist, but genocidal and murderous too:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sco
LOL, the gay haters that are willing to be honest would go a little bit farther than separate drinking fountains. I am guessing that within the fundie community, a large contingent would be willing to support public executions. Afterall, that is what their holy book of fairy tales tells them should be done.
And this is just for starters .... the bashing is relentless ... while claiming to be targeted and discriminated against by society ... almost akin to a wife beater who wants to blame his wife for the bruises left on his hands after the beating.
But the absurdity doesn't end there ... no .... some have proffered the idea that homosexuality is actually a sign of the "advanced spirituality" of "old souls" who may have become gender confused due to their many lifetimes being both sexes. The obvious underlying insinuation is that heterosexuals are less spiritually developed! And then there is an equally absurd idea that homosexuality/heterosexuality are modern day 19th and 20th century concepts that didn't exist before.
Now, in all of this, the common denominator is a refusal to embrace common sense and honesty ... while promoting logical fallacy. One such example is the claim that there is no secular foundation to deny Same Sex Marriage ... that all objections are based in religious dogma. The fact is, those who seek state sanctioned status of same sex marriage do so for the purpose of legal and financial gain. But those benefits that have evolved in our society never were based on providing benefits to adults .. these benefits were intended to safeguard the interests of the offspring of married couples. Society saw benefit in offering advantages to marriage and producing future additions to society .... ensuring the viability and stability of the family raising those children. Society didn't create these benefits so that you can add your homosexual lover to your health care plan, or realize some legal or tax advantage for your personal gain with no benefit offered society in return, other than your lovely presence. This benefit should be plainly obvious to everyone here who's parents chose not to adhere to strictly homosexual practice. Although I must admit to the thoughts that in some cases, society would probably be better off if they had done so.
And at the end of the day ... we come to the root issue of what is "normal". And "normal" can and is many different things to many different people. To a cannibal, eating human beings is considered normal ... but to the majority, it's considered extremely abnormal. And if a person is born with an arm growing out of the side of their head, we need not fool ourselves by redesigning human hat ware to include armholes in an effort to define that condition as "normal".
Consequently, if we want to define homosexuality as "normal", one needs to engage a great deal of rationalizing, given the biological makeup of most species and their normal methods of procreating. That's really the big clue to the mystery. Now that doesn't mean that homosexuality isn't a "natural" occurrence because it is, as evidenced in it's manifestation in nature.
Unlike some (not all) religious fundamentalists believe, I reject the idea that sexual orientation is a "conscious choice". I believe it is biological, and a result of similar chemical processes that determine male/female development. Consequently, I believe it is wrong to condemn or deny someone based on a born trait. At the same time, let's dispense with the nonsense about equality and fairness. There are no such things. Life itself is inherently unfair, and no one is equal ... we are not born equal in any regard ... not in status of family resources or parents ... not in intellect or physical abilities .... not in drive or desires ... nothing at all "equal". Consequently, our contributions to society will not be equal either, nor in the rewards received for those variable contributions.
So to continue demanding something that doesn't actually exist (equality), one will find no end to the examples of failure to achieve that goal, or reasons for feeling denied. The reality is, heterosexual families that produce and properly prepare their children to be prosperous and valuable contributing members of society provide a benefit to society that homosexuals, by and large, do not ... therefore, society isn't denying you a right .... it's simply not giving you a benefit that you haven't earned.
The greater reality is we don't serve anyone's best interests by embracing fallacy such as has been repeatedly engaged here on this topic. The video is intentionally offensive to many people, and purposely engaging in offensive behavior doesn't foster cooperation and acceptance .. it creates divisiveness and resentments. Like everything else in life, whatever you hope to receive, you must first be willing to give ... including respect of others beliefs, choices, and feelings.
Respect isn't an entitlement ... it's earned ... most effectively accomplished by behaving respectfully toward those for whom you expect the same in return. If it's too much for you to offer ... it's too much for you to expect from others. It's as simple as that.
What exactly is the "problem" of my husband and I having sex? I fail to see anything wrong with it.
I don't care if you have sex with your partner, your partner's partner or your monkey! Keep it to yourself. Quit going after my kids and trying to tell them its "all normal."
I don't know if anyone posted this since I try to jump over the "I said, you said" posts that get personal.
I remember being taught that the way we turn out has to do with nature and nurture. I think this is why most people get confused with homosexuality. Since scientists have not proven anyone is born a certain way, even though we all like to think so, then we have to fall back on nurture having a big impact on our lives.
People are afraid our kids are being influenced. I was taught pre-teens go through a stage where they have crushes on the same sex. They grow out of this stage. Can you imagine that kid in the crush stage having a trusted adult, like a teacher, saying, "will most possibly you are gay."
When I was younger our society was not so sex saturated so kids went through this stage and people mostly found humor in it knowing it was just a stage, but not now with all the teaching and talk about homosexuality. Now kids would seriously think that just may be who they are.
As someone who is gay, I find the video to be absolutely ridiculous. As always, we can't just have gay people protesting.. no, we have to make sure every single form of stereotype is involved.
The problem with that is.. I don't look, sound, or act like any of those people in the videos. Most gay friends I know.. don't look or act or sound like that either. These groups don't understand that although they are getting the attention they want, they are hurting the image of gay people. It's bad enough the small minded Bible thumpers think we're all like this, but when they see this it's "proof" to them.
Take away HOW they said everything, take away what these people looked like... put in writing as satire, and they are spot on. Gay is wrong because "the bible told me so" as well as the other things in the bible, that the thumpers REFUSE to acknowledge.
There's a right way and a wrong way to get your message across. This was the wrong way. I see no problems with pointing out the sheer idiocy and hypocrisy of Christianity, but do it tastefully. It'll hurt their "CAUSE" much more.
Many, including some homosexual activists appear not to like this over-the-top campaign attempting to gain support for same sex marriage in Minnesota. This type of ad does nothing to help sway me to the cause; in fact, anything that uses kids or mocks religion or family values pushes me further in the opposite direction. How about you?
"An in-your-face video supporting gay marriage in Minnesota and mocking Christians has drawn the ire of some gay-rights activists who say the clip—full of f-bombs, racy visuals, and even same-sex kissing by very young-looking actors—leaves them “creeped out.â€
What's Your Instinct: FCKH8 Uses Tween Gay Kiss In Latest Video Campaign (http://instinctmagazine.com/blog/what-s-your-instinct-fckh8-uses-tween-gay-kiss-in-latest-video-campaign?directory=100011 - broken link)
It's obviously meant for young kids. Unfortunately, that's the way that many of them talk these days. They talk nasty. i don't like it, but it seems pretty effective to me if it's meant to be targeted to that age group.
I don't and was actually somewhat of a supporter of SSM until I encountered this type of campaign/agenda, which prompted me to do some research and rethink my heretofore "sympathetic views. Wonder if this effects others the same way.
Your support must have been very tepid at best if this one propagandum steered you in the other direction. I'm a 47 year old guy, so this is not appealing to me at all. But it doesn't change my opinion one bit. I am 100% pro-equality and will be until this country lives up to the meaning of the Constitution.
Darn, I wish I could rep you for that post, GuyNTexas, but the repmeister rapped my knuckles and said I have to spread it around a little more.
Not only do you lay out how respect is something to be earned and that videos such as the one linked are offensive to a broad spectrum of society but you say what I, and many others have said in the past:
Quote:
The fact is, those who seek state sanctioned status of same sex marriage do so for the purpose of legal and financial gain.
As someone who is gay, I find the video to be absolutely ridiculous. As always, we can't just have gay people protesting.. no, we have to make sure every single form of stereotype is involved.
The problem with that is.. I don't look, sound, or act like any of those people in the videos. Most gay friends I know.. don't look or act or sound like that either. These groups don't understand that although they are getting the attention they want, they are hurting the image of gay people. It's bad enough the small minded Bible thumpers think we're all like this, but when they see this it's "proof" to them.
Take away HOW they said everything, take away what these people looked like... put in writing as satire, and they are spot on. Gay is wrong because "the bible told me so" as well as the other things in the bible, that the thumpers REFUSE to acknowledge.
There's a right way and a wrong way to get your message across. This was the wrong way. I see no problems with pointing out the sheer idiocy and hypocrisy of Christianity, but do it tastefully. It'll hurt their "CAUSE" much more.
Do you not see the shear hypocrisy in labeling the entirety of Christianity .... idiocy?
The reality is, the Christian church, and particularly the Catholic church is rife with homosexual priests and nuns ... so that's one giant contradiction. But more to the point, the history of the Christian Church, like may other religions are well represented by dogmatic types of people who believe they have a right to force others to accept their doctrines and way of life no matter who or how many object. But by that definition, I see little distinction between Christians and Homosexuals. You share much more in common than you'd care to consider.
Being born and raised a Catholic, at a very early age I recognized the contradictions and outright fallacies being foisted upon my young mind, and I had an immediate negative response. Communion? Eating the body of Christ ... drinking the Blood of Christ? Jesus Christ! What crazy cannibalism is this? Not baptized .. you go to hell simply for not having some water dabbed on your forehead? Not buying it (and that for me was at the age of 9)!
At the same time however, I also recognize the fundamental value of such things as the Ten Commandments ... not that Christians are any better at adhering to them than anyone else is ... but the ideas are good ones nonetheless ... and there are many many Christian people of kind natures, who truly are genuinely wonderful people ... hard workers ... charitable givers ... and respectful. And I hate to break it to all of the moral relativists out there .... there is nothing wrong with having a sense or an embrace of the concept of morality ... it's fundamental to life ... such as viewing murder and theft and dishonesty as unacceptable actions.
It's the moral relativist who can justify their anti-social behavior as a legitimate action for whatever reasons they use to convince themselves ... consequently, morality cannot be arbitrary and self defined at one's own convenience or whim .... but a consensus opinion collectively agreed to by the greater society. Of course, consensus opinion isn't always correct, but the chances of it being correct are far greater than 300 Million divergent individual opinions who's criteria is solely concerned with individual self interests. That describes chaos.
Given the liberal love of big government and laws to regulate almost every human activity, it's extremely ironic that the only exemption to that regulation seems to be anything having to do with morality ... that must remain an individual right to define as they see fit to do!
Yet you casually declare 2 Billion people idiots & hypocrites, because they disagree with you? Hmmmm. Interesting mental gymnastics there.
Simply put: We shouldn't have laws backed up by the Bible. The Christians would throw a FIT if we had some laws backed up by Muslim beliefs...
Religion needs to keep to themselves, and that's all. The more and more they promote the bible as "reason", the more laughable they are.
This lady at work was talking about how gays = bad because of the Bible. After i was done laughing at her, I asked her about eating shellfish and stoning women if they weren't virgins before marriage. She said OHHH they were OLD LAWS and don't matter these days
Cherry picking, FTW.
Until they stop doing that, maybe they as a whole can get more respect.
I don't care if you have sex with your partner, your partner's partner or your monkey! Keep it to yourself. Quit going after my kids and trying to tell them its "all normal."
Ahh, the deflection (non)answer.
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