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Or you could purge literature garbage entirely from our school English class curriculum, then you won't have to worry about people bitching and moaning about their kids having to reading supposedly perverse literature they don't agree with. I think literature itself is largely a perversion of sorts. Don't need "dirty words" or "dirty topics" for something to be considered perverse.
Restructure all curriculum so that it revolves almost entirely around promoting a math and science only oriented system... and then purge the rest of the classes that don't fall in line with math and science worship. Works for me.
Sound too harsh or narrow-minded? I don't see it as being much different than people who want to demand that "naughty literature" be completely purged from the curriculum. You want your pet thing purged from the curriculum... I want mine... same diff... only difference is, I think my solution would finally bring Americans international test scores out of the dumper.
[Or alternatively.... perhaps the authoritarian central planner types can M.Y.O.B. and allow a system of competing ideas, where schools can have a much wider degree of curriculum from which the consumer can select from such that it serve each individual consumers needs and desires most closely.]
Last edited by FreedomThroughAnarchism; 08-24-2011 at 05:09 PM..
Perhaps the poster who is a librarian and defended these books based on a possible need by gay students to not have to feel ashamed could answer your question. I asked the same question. I don't get it.
Here's your answer from the librarian: There is no NEED for anyone of any age to read anything, whether they're gay, straight, or bisexual... but hopefully people (especially kids & teens) WANT to read, and they should be given a variety of options without censorship or paranoia standing in their way. Maybe the gay teens won't want to read it and straight ones will, or maybe it will just sit on a shelf and gather dust - doesn't matter, provided they have the freedom to decide & a well-rounded collection to browse.
I try not to order "crap" for the library, but then again crap is a subjective word. Our most popular adult checkouts are usually dime-novel romances like Danielle Steele and mass market mysteries like Evanovich and Rita Mae Brown, while Shakespeare and Dostoyevsky rarely leave the shelves... who cares, as long as they're reading!
P.S. That gay student I mentioned earlier checked out EVERY gay-themed book in the library, and thanked us for carrying them... we still keep in touch, and he started college last week.
Or you could purge literature garbage entirely from our school English class curriculum, then you won't have to worry about people bitching and moaning about their kids having to reading supposedly perverse literature they don't agree with. I think literature itself is largely a perversion of sorts. Don't need "dirty words" or "dirty topics" for something to be considered perverse.
Restructure all curriculum so that it revolves almost entirely around promoting a math and science only oriented system... and then purge the rest of the classes that don't fall in line with math and science worship. Works for me.
Sound too harsh or narrow-minded? I don't see it as being much different than people who want to demand that "naughty literature" be completely purged from the curriculum. You want your pet thing purged from the curriculum... I want mine... same diff... only difference is, I think my solution would finally bring Americans international test scores out of the dumper.
[Or alternatively.... perhaps all the authoritarian central planner types can M.Y.O.B. and allow a system of competing ideas, where schools can have a much wider degree of curriculum from which the consumer can select from such that it serve each individual consumers needs and desires most closely.]
So, you want to breed a nation of uncreative, robotic & socially-inept nerds? I get your point, but it would be REALLY sad to purge all creative and liberal arts from the curriculum... those were the only classes I enjoyed, so I probably wouldn't even have stayed in school if that were the case! And what would they later do in college? Keep ignoring all liberal arts subjects, or start with remedial English at age 19? No offense, but that sounds like a horrible plan.
I need not "prove" anything. I am commenting based on reports of two news organizations, including an "confession-apology" i.e. "New Jersey school district has apologized to parents after requiring high school students to read the graphic books"
Now, you may challenge those reports, but YOU need to prove they are not accurate .... it's not my responsibility to conduct an investigation and interview students, parents, and school board members to prove the report's validity.
Secondly, that they were even on a "list" of required reading can be automatically viewed as "sanctioned and recommended" by school authorities, regardless of whether or not they were included as part of a larger list offering other options ... a point which you have done nothing to prove other than apply your totally irrelevant past personal experience. The operative point is that the material was objectionable .... offered no specific academic value over and above some other non-sexual, non-homosexual, non-pedophile material .... clearly showing either extremely poor judgment or an underlying agenda.
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I dismiss the poor judgment possibility because of the "Caveat / excuse" given by the superintendent when he said: "You want to spur interest in kids reading that fits their needs not that of people in the 1930s,†he said. “Interests change.â€
First, you have the very blatant dismissal of traditional values as something outdated and only applicable to "people of the 1930's" , a classic progressive tactic of "times have changed". Then you have the "we only give them what they want and need" as if a 15 year old NEEDS to read about drug induced orgies and pedophile sex acts purely for some academic literary value.
The promoters and defenders of this nonsense know EXACTLY what the agenda is .... not surprisingly, very few have the courage to just own it and defend it. Instead, it's the old tactic of "What agenda? There is no agenda" .... followed by "prove it".
Not only are these progressives who promote this social re-engineering "degenerates" but cowards too.
If you defend it, you own it.
Good to hear you chime in on this Guy! Another great "Voice of Reason & Sanity" post!
The readings were for kids in honors classes. That's right about college level. To somebody who has the intellect and maturity of an average college student, should anything be "off limits"?
Personally, having been in IB, the more "controversial" the book, the better discussions were had in class.
that may be true....I don't know, no way of verifying that..but, not everything has a intellectual, insightful, stimulating meaning to it...sometimes, crap is crap, no matter how hard you try to assign "intellectualism" to it....would you argue Soul Plane was a brilliant movie because it had alot of "mature" and "controversial" themes in it?...
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To which I brought up Brave New World, which contains scenes of drug-induced heterosexual orgies. It also has a character who keeps herself in a drug-induced comatose state.
I don't know what point you were tyring to make...that book too was banned and heavily criticized...even accusations of plagiarism....just because it contained straight people didn't stop others from railing against it...
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Most of my favorite books have been banned at some point.
I've yet to see homosexuals "practically blowing each other" in front of anyone... except possibly a camera crew for a porn.
no but I have see fisting kits gave out to high-school kids...and when parents and others tried to speak against it...you guessed it, they were "ignorant bigots" or something...because they didn't want their kids exposed to this..yes, maybe I did overdo it with the hyperbole...but parents can't even try to shield them from certain things they do...that they have to force it on your kids otherwise you're a bigot...
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Does holding hands count as "throwing gayness in people's faces"?
Huh?
I have seen people defend stuff like this..about fisting, p*ssing on each other, swallowing?.....that this is acceptable to hand out to anyone...let alone kids....why?...well if you don't you just hate gays you bigot....people wouldn't want this stuff handed out to kids even if its about straight people...
and when a gay couple was denied a rep hall, they sued, anyone else would have just found another place, but no, this couple sued....yeah, sh*t like this kinda means "gayness being thrown in your face"...and when you simply try to look away, they scream "BIGOT!!"...
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Yet when similar books are named that have heterosexual relations instead of homosexual, it is asked how one could "possibly" relate the two .
what?
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Pissing on one's partner is not something only homosexuals do.
you are right......but heterosexuals didn't think its so common that they designed a pamphlet for students and kids on how to do it "safely"...
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Which post stated that?
no one posted it, its the common rebuttal...that if you don't want to be bothered with this mess, well you're just not "smart" enough to "handle" it...
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And all schools have policies in place where you can ask for an alternate book.
I sure hope so..
again, some people don't want this...even if it was about straight people...even if you try to wrap it in a intellectual package and rhetoric...they don't want it....that doesn't make them "homophobes"...every criticism isn't "homophobic"...get over yourselves
Teenagers aren't children, and they know what they like and want... did you know what/who you liked at age 15-17, or were you still playing in a sandbox and watching Sesame Street? How soon we forget, but I think most of us were pretty aware of our preferences by the time puberty hit.
Teenagers most CERTAINLY are children ... and from a very carefully conducted evaluation, a good number of college students are too. 20 year olds riding skateboards and tiny bicycles that look to be the size of the bike I road when I was 6 years old!!! And when they aren't doing that, they are playing video games. You think these are signs of maturity?
Furthermore, 13 is technically a teenager ... which can be as young as one day older than a 12 year old. Do you think a 12 year old is wise enough to make their own decisions about life ... and what is best for themselves? Do you believe that whatever they "want" is OK for them to have or do?
But the better question is .... if there is "no agenda" to sexualize these children or mold social-sexual views ..... then none of this is appropriate for any of the kids in school at any age. Their knowledge of the entire pallet of sexual possibilities is NOT the responsibility of the government or public school system to impart to them, nor does this area of sexual education need to be comprehensive and complete by high school graduation time. That's not the purpose of education .... or is it?
With the deplorable state of academics today .... maybe refocusing the priorities toward reading, writing, math, science, and PARTICULARLY civics class would be more beneficial than assuring comprehensive sex training?
Must be reading different reviews then. You didn't mention any of your "reviewers" speaking of this supposed overwhelming "gay sex themes" in the books you seem to be focusing on.
Perhaps because there isn't any.
Where did I focus on "gay sex themes?" The problem I have repeatedly pointed out is the inappropriate, graphic sexual content of the books. Others have defended the books, saying gay kids need something to read, I guess because both books feature inappropriate sexual material involving gays; a gay orgy and a sexual encounter between an adult woman and a 13 year old girl.
The reviews I referred to all talked of the inappropriate for kids sexual content. I stand by it.
So, you want to breed a nation of uncreative, robotic & socially-inept nerds? I get your point, but it would be REALLY sad to purge all creative and liberal arts from the curriculum... those were the only classes I enjoyed, so I probably wouldn't even have stayed in school if that were the case! And what would they later do in college? Keep ignoring all liberal arts subjects, or start with remedial English at age 19? No offense, but that sounds like a horrible plan.
Well, bear in mind the alternative which I offered in the addendum in my last paragraph,
[Or alternatively.... perhaps all the authoritarian central planner types can M.Y.O.B. and allow a system of competing ideas, where schools can have a much wider degree of curriculum from which the consumer can select from such that it serve each individual consumers needs and desires most closely.]
The first two paragraphs where I said we could purge all non-science and math classes was sort of intended to illustrate to those who want to "purge" broad classes of information content from either the libraries, or even from the curriculum. It was an attempt to show them what it would be like if we took their purging idea to even greater extremes such that in doing so, it might give them a taste of what the consequences are of being too quick to break out the heavy-hand of content control when one wants to try to purge ideas in society.
Though I will admit, I am still curious what effect purging most non-science and non-math courses might have on test scores. I think a lot of people would lose interest in school (be it college or K-12), but that side effect aside, I still would like to know if that would help significantly increase our math and science scores.
Where did I focus on "gay sex themes?" The problem I have repeatedly pointed out is the inappropriate, graphic sexual content of the books. Others have defended the books, saying gay kids need something to read, I guess because both books feature inappropriate sexual material involving gays; a gay orgy and a sexual encounter between an adult woman and a 13 year old girl.
The reviews I referred to all talked of the inappropriate for kids sexual content. I stand by it.
I agree with you.
Let the schools teach the three R's and I'll take care of the morals. I don't need anyone else's help.
With the deplorable state of academics today .... maybe refocusing the priorities toward reading, writing, math, science, and PARTICULARLY civics class would be more beneficial than assuring comprehensive sex training? by GuyNTexas
^^Most of the world is kickin' our butt in these areas, we need to focus on them in school.^^
Last edited by buddy5; 08-24-2011 at 05:44 PM..
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I get your point, but it would be REALLY sad to purge all creative and liberal arts from the curriculum... those were the only classes I enjoyed, so I probably wouldn't even have stayed in school if that were the case! And what would they later do in college? Keep ignoring all liberal arts subjects, or start with remedial English at age 19? No offense, but that sounds like a horrible plan.
