"School Reading List Featured Books on Lesbian Sex,Gay Orgy" (ideologies, abortions)

[Emeraldmaiden]

Originally Posted by Workin_Hard

But I admire a woman who can take on a challenge! Show me you can do it and I think we can overcome all these other differences we have... Send pictures!

*I* don't need convincing.

[EricGold]

Originally Posted by Rita Mordio

Never saw Soul Plane.

I did, however, read As I Lay Dying, Brave New World, 1984, Fahrenheit 451, Catcher in the Rye, The Color Purple, To Kill a Mockingbird, Schindler's List, Lolita, Romeo and Juliet, Lord of the Flies, Animal Farm, The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, and plenty more.

All of these were actually book assignments, some in middle school. The "mature" and "controversial" themes in each book were not what made them brilliant literary pieces. The story presented and the method by which it is presented is why they are brilliant.

I didn't say some things of heavy and mature nature couldn't be brilliant...but that not everything of heavy and mature nature was brilliant...that maybe, just maybe things are just....crap....and to try to wrap "intellectualism" around it doesn't stop it from being crap..not everything has a academic value to it.....some people find drug induced gay orgies bullsh*t....sorry...

Now, I never called or even insinuated that anyone a hateful bigot regarding the books in the OP. Prudes? maybe. And I feel the same way about the people who attempted to ban Brave New World. They're prudes.

ok

A couple of things to point out:

1) The course was called Human Sexuality. Orgasms are a part of that.
2) This was an optional demonstration/activity, much like other demonstrations and activities that the professor has offered.
3) The woman in question was not a student.
4) "Students were reportedly warned about the explicit nature of the demonstration, and were urged to skip the event if they were worried about being uncomfortable."

I have no problem with it, but to say that this has some kind of academic value is pushing it...again, they can do it, but I fail to see how such a class, or at least this single one would help out with anyone futures......watching someone masturbate...what does that accomplish?.."well its to have an orgasm"...for what?..."you're just not smart enough to get it"......

my point is that stuff like this, the book, and other stuff isn't a matter of "homophobia" or being a "prude"...its just unnecessary.....and to try to make it into something "intellectual" isn't going to all of a sudden make it so... remember, this was a attractive young female..who doesn't like those?....people still found it wrong.....gays aren't the only ones to run into criticism over sexuality...

even if its about psychology, does watching someone masturbate live further someone's education?...its just crap....sometimes things are just crap...

I seem to notice that the kit has instructions for how to make a "dental dam". You don't make a dental dam for fisting. You make a dental dam for oral. Still in bad taste, but just pointing that out.

ok

If, when my daughter is in high school, she brings home one of these kits. I'd probably point and laugh at it until she's too embarrassed to think of giving oral.

that is your response if your daughter brought home a kit about fisting, oral, swallowing etc???..Jesus...umm, ok... more power to you....ADULTS wouldn't be ok getting this stuff, we are aware of this is only on the fringe of society...so we don't pay attention to it...I be worried why the school found it necessary to distribute this.....did some kind of new "sex revolution" happen?...is fisting a growing trend among teens?....and how does the school know?..that is incredibly dangerous, why are they encouraging this?...but I guess all the cool parents would just laugh at the prudes or whatever..

I've seen people defend any number of reprehensible things. Why? Because they can.

that is true, but almost always, anything gay, no mater how reprehensible it is, is almost always defended, usually by the same people...not random people defending random things...on these very City data threads I can predict, with accuracy on who is going to defend anything gay....

If I was looking for a venue and was told "no", I'd go elsewhere. If I was told "no. We don't rent to jews", I'd be pretty pissed. Then I'd sue for $1 to make sure everybody and their brother knew the kind of people that ran the place.

gays aren't normally turned away, they never denied gays renting a bedroom, but for whatever reason they thought the rep hall was infringing on their religious rights...it wasn't because they were gay, it was their religious convictions...again, every time you don't get your way doesn't mean its because of "homophobia"..you're not that special..

these people and their family run business are obvious "bigots"..like I keep saying, "in your face and you better accept it" otherwise, you're a bigot..

and by the way, they had to shut down the rep hall so no one can use it...but who cares, as long as those bigots and their family got whats coming to them....

That was in reference to this response that was made when I first referenced Brave New World.

Ok

See my first link. Heterosexual sex pamphlet.

lol, some random case in the U.K.?...and that is no where near as graphic as the homosexual pamphlet....infact the hetero one was, albeit inappropriate, for educational purposes not for conducting anything of sexual interactions like p*ssing and fisting....find something, here in America about safe hetero anal or something and I will give you that..

I'm seeing more of a trend akin to "I feel that the kids should be mature enough to handle a book that has mature themes or events. Don't take their maturity for granted."

some parents want to have say in what their kids learn, their minds are still impressionable...you can argue that they are "mature"...others would say that they are still confused and trying to find their way and place in the world....I don't know too many teens that have fully developed, matured minds and personalities..now I am not saying that it would corrupt them...that they may point and laugh, be freaked out and even just outright ignore stuff like this...this is the facebook, texting, sexting, generation...kids have enough hard time dealing with straight sex as it it..

In the school system I graduated from, it was a district policy. You could object to any book for any reason and the teacher had to provide an alternate.

ok

But here's the thing. If people are so up in arms about these books, why are they not protesting other books as vehemently? What makes these books different?

other books have been protest vehemently...even burned....like I said, get over yourselves...not every criticism "homophobic"

[twinArmageddons]

Originally Posted by EricGold

I didn't say some things of heavy and mature nature couldn't be brilliant...but that not everything of heavy and mature nature was brilliant...that maybe, just maybe things are just....crap....and to try to wrap "intellectualism" around it doesn't stop it from being crap..not everything has a academic value to it.....some people find drug induced gay orgies bullsh*t....sorry...

And others don't make mountains out of molehills and enjoy a good book when they read it.

Tastes vary.

You may not like good books, but I do.

I have no problem with it, but to say that this has some kind of academic value is pushing it...again, they can do it, but I fail to see how such a class, or at least this single one would help out with anyone futures......watching someone masturbate...what does that accomplish?.."well its to have an orgasm"...for what?..."you're just not smart enough to get it"......

The class has to do with the psychology behind sexual acts, which does include masturbation.

And yes, there is MUCH educational value when learning such psychology in watching someone masturbate. As you can study a whole range of emotions go through them as they do so.

my point is that stuff like this, the book, and other stuff isn't a matter of "homophobia" or being a "prude"...its just unnecessary.....and to try to make it into something "intellectual" isn't going to all of a sudden make it so...

Just like claiming something isn't "intellectual" makes it stupid.

even if its about psychology, does watching someone masturbate live further someone's education?...

Yes.

If it's relevant to the subject.

Which it is.

that is your response if your daughter brought home a kit about fisting, oral, swallowing etc???

It'd be my response.

Because it is quite hilarious.

However, I do believe Rita was more pointing towards the fact that the kit does NOT include fisting.

However, if one keeps seeing fisting in something that doesn't include fisting, it makes the source unreliable.

...but I guess all the cool parents would just laugh at the prudes or whatever..

I don't particularly think of myself as a "cool parent", but I certainly DO laugh my behind off at people who have all these idiotic hangups over sex.

Your 13 year old can read about sex.

It won't make them run off to the whorehouse.

Trust me.

gays aren't normally turned away, they never denied gays renting a bedroom, but for whatever reason they thought the rep hall was infringing on their religious rights...it wasn't because they were gay, it was their religious convictions...

Last I remembered, the case in question had to deal with a public venue.

Which the laws of such, if I am correct, specifically state that if the venue is public, than no one, gay or straight, can be turned away.

So, religious or not, it was wrong of them to do so.

Very prudish too.

these people and their family run business are obvious "bigots"

If they practice bigotry against a group that really does no harm, then yes, I do consider them to be bigots.

And prudes.

..like I keep saying, "in your face and you better accept it" otherwise, you're a bigot..

And a prude.

and by the way, they had to shut down the rep hall so no one can use it.

Good.

Prudish cowards.

..but who cares, as long as those bigots and their family got whats coming to them....

Pretty much.

some parents want to have say in what their kids learn, their minds are still impressionable.

Therefore wanting to impress upon them their own sick prudish morals.

..you can argue that they are "mature"...others would say that they are still confused and trying to find their way and place in the world.

Logical, non-prudish people would say "Hey. My kid is in a 10th grade honours english class. I think they have a handle on things."

...I don't know too many teens that have fully developed, matured minds and personalities.

You'd be hard-pressed to find ANYONE with that kind of mind and personality.

Judging by the prudes on here, at least.

kids have enough hard time dealing with straight sex as it it..

Teens know more about straight sex than most of the prudes practicing it right now.

get over yourselves...not every criticism "homophobic"

Never said it was. Just idiotic and prudish.

[buddy5]

Originally Posted by EricGold

I didn't say some things of heavy and mature nature couldn't be brilliant...but that not everything of heavy and mature nature was brilliant...that maybe, just maybe things are just....crap....and to try to wrap "intellectualism" around it doesn't stop it from being crap..not everything has a academic value to it.....some people find drug induced gay orgies bullsh*t....sorry...

ok

I have no problem with it, but to say that this has some kind of academic value is pushing it...again, they can do it, but I fail to see how such a class, or at least this single one would help out with anyone futures......watching someone masturbate...what does that accomplish?.."well its to have an orgasm"...for what?..."you're just not smart enough to get it"......

my point is that stuff like this, the book, and other stuff isn't a matter of "homophobia" or being a "prude"...its just unnecessary.....and to try to make it into something "intellectual" isn't going to all of a sudden make it so... remember, this was a attractive young female..who doesn't like those?....people still found it wrong.....gays aren't the only ones to run into criticism over sexuality...

even if its about psychology, does watching someone masturbate live further someone's education?...its just crap....sometimes things are just crap...

ok

that is your response if your daughter brought home a kit about fisting, oral, swallowing etc???..Jesus...umm, ok... more power to you....ADULTS wouldn't be ok getting this stuff, we are aware of this is only on the fringe of society...so we don't pay attention to it...I be worried why the school found it necessary to distribute this.....did some kind of new "sex revolution" happen?...is fisting a growing trend among teens?....and how does the school know?..that is incredibly dangerous, why are they encouraging this?...but I guess all the cool parents would just laugh at the prudes or whatever..

that is true, but almost always, anything gay, no mater how reprehensible it is, is almost always defended, usually by the same people...not random people defending random things...on these very City data threads I can predict, with accuracy on who is going to defend anything gay....


gays aren't normally turned away, they never denied gays renting a bedroom, but for whatever reason they thought the rep hall was infringing on their religious rights...it wasn't because they were gay, it was their religious convictions...again, every time you don't get your way doesn't mean its because of "homophobia"..you're not that special..

these people and their family run business are obvious "bigots"..like I keep saying, "in your face and you better accept it" otherwise, you're a bigot..

and by the way, they had to shut down the rep hall so no one can use it...but who cares, as long as those bigots and their family got whats coming to them....

Ok

lol, some random case in the U.K.?...and that is no where near as graphic as the homosexual pamphlet....infact the hetero one was, albeit inappropriate, for educational purposes not for conducting anything of sexual interactions like p*ssing and fisting....find something, here in America about safe hetero anal or something and I will give you that..

some parents want to have say in what their kids learn, their minds are still impressionable...you can argue that they are "mature"...others would say that they are still confused and trying to find their way and place in the world....I don't know too many teens that have fully developed, matured minds and personalities..now I am not saying that it would corrupt them...that they may point and laugh, be freaked out and even just outright ignore stuff like this...this is the facebook, texting, sexting, generation...kids have enough hard time dealing with straight sex as it it..

ok
other books have been protest vehemently...even burned....like I said, get over yourselves...not every criticism "homophobic"

A lot of truth in this post. Lots of times on this forum some of these points have been called bigoted, hateful, intolerant, ignorant, homophobic.

It seems like you should be able to voice an honest opinion without being lambasted, insulted and ridiculed.

[GuyNTexas]

Originally Posted by nimchimpsky

Thanks for generalizing about all of us, GuyNTexas. I'm 21 and I've never been on a skateboard, never played a video game, and yes I have been on a bike, but it was during family outings.

I never said ALL, or even MOST .... I simply cited examples of the lack of maturity that exists today (in general) as compared to when I was of similar age. It's true, and unlike you, I was there then and here now, so I'm speaking from direct personal experience.

Originally Posted by nimchimpsky

Where has anyone implied this?

I was responding directly to the claim that teenagers were fully mature enough to make their own decisions and choices, which is total hogwash, only embraced by teenagers and some misguided adults who should know better.

Originally Posted by nimchimpsky

Sex does need to be discussed to some degree by high school because by the time most people are in high school, they are interested in it and do try to have it. I can understand arguing that sex is too mature a topic for middle schoolers, but for high schoolers? Most high schoolers have had sex, so don't you think they can handle talking about sex between two novel characters in an educational setting?

No .... school is for literacy, not sexual education. And if my memory serves, I believe you've defended in past debates, sex education in grade school. And, it might come as a shock to you, but 40 years ago, most kids didn't already have sex by the time they reached 10th grade ... those who were, were the exceptions. This is kind of the point to the topic here ... the premature sexualization of children. Of course most kids today are engaging in sex by high school ... that's because of the indoctrination taking place as early as 2nd grade .... handing out condoms in 5th grade class .... so obviously, by grade 9, they're sex veterans able to discuss in detail the Kama Sutra, thanks to the agenda that doesn't exist.

Moderator cut: Discuss Topic. Not poster.

Originally Posted by nimchimpsky

Don't forget--teen sex. Romeo and Juliet weren't exactly in their 30's. They were about 13 and 15.

Actually ... bad example. It was a story of tragedy and love, not teen sex. Even though many confuse the two, love and sex are two separate matters. Also involved was marriage before the act of consummating the marriage by two youngsters of the same age group ... and if my memory serves ... Juliet's father objected to a Count's proposal of marriage to his daughter because she was too young. So there was love, no premarital sex, and a father objecting to the pedophile overtures of a Count wanting to marry his underage daughter.

This story seems to incorporate far too many examples of traditional moral values to be of any use to the liberal argument

[Bideshi]

Immoral people have attained positions that enable them to indoctrinate our children with their depraved thinking in order to "legitimize" their own immorality. It's up to responsible parents to keep them from succeeding. Drive them out of positions of authority and decision making. There is a war going on for the soul of America.

[hammertime33]

Originally Posted by Bideshi

Immoral people have attained positions that enable them to indoctrinate our children with their depraved thinking in order to "legitimize" their own immorality. It's up to responsible parents to keep them from succeeding. Drive them out of positions of authority and decision making. There is a war going on for the soul of America.

I totally agree. It's time to drive the Church and its immoral indoctrination out of people's - especially our children's - lives.

[jwm1964]

Originally Posted by gizmo980

Teenagers aren't children, and they know what they like and want... did you know what/who you liked at age 15-17, or were you still playing in a sandbox and watching Sesame Street? How soon we forget, but I think most of us were pretty aware of our preferences by the time puberty hit.

Um, yea, teenagers are children.

Not only physiologically as their bodies including their brains are still growing and changing, but emotionally as well. They also lack practical experience which is part of the process of maturation. Even our laws acknowledge this although that is changing and parental authority, or our ability to protect and guide our children is constantly being eroded by the state.

Your statement about children 15 - 17 playing in the sandbox or watching Sesame Street says more about your lack of maturity than it does about teenagers. I also think it is interesting that in the next sentence you allude to children entering puberty which in some cases starts as young as 9 or 10 - so what is the age range of the people you consider - not children? Teenagers or anyone entering puberty?

But back to your statement, do you propose that somehow there is a jump between the Sandbox and the maturity of responsibly managing a job, finances, family and other adult responsibilities that come with these tasks with no intermediate steps?

I do agree that teenagers know what they like and what they want, which is also a sign of their immaturity. What we like and want is not necessarily what is best for us and often must be weighed against the cost of acquiring it (not necessarily monetary) which is a characteristic of maturity. I'm glad you state this though, because this short sighted infantile and hedonistic reasoning is exactly the type of immaturity that I believe characterizes a lot (not all) of 'gay' behavior and the idea that I am born this way (I believe) is used by many to justify an array of childish behavior and attitudes, not just sexual preference.

This lack of maturity in chronological adults and assumption of maturity in children starts us down a dangerous path the gay community desperately want to publicly distance themselves from.
If teenagers aren't children, what are they then? The opposite of children are adults.
If they are adults then shouldn't they be able to make adult decisions, especially concerning themselves and their own bodies?
If they can make adult decisions about themselves and their own bodies, shouldn't they be able to interact with other adults regarding these issues?

I'm sure NAMBLA would welcome you with this reasoning.

It seems to me this attitude you express, "that teenagers(children) are adults" is prevalent among the gay and gay supportive community consciously or even more dangerously sub-consciously as Manboy (Strel) exemplefies in his attack against my child - he doesn't like what I say, perhaps he doesn't like me so he attacks my child (calls her stupid). He must consider her (a child) fair game for an adult (himself) to rather visciously attack. I think a mature and adult attitude tends to shy away from attacking children, yet those who exemplify your reasoning "that teenagers(children) are adults" must see them as fair game for manipulative and predatory practices.


As for me, I believe we need to protect our children and allow them the time to truly mature and gain experience before we expect them to interact with adults on equal footing.

jmho . . .

[EricGold]

Originally Posted by Phantasy Tokoro

And others don't make mountains out of molehills and enjoy a good book when they read it.

Tastes vary.

You may not like good books, but I do

I can't argue with you on what good books are...if you find stuff like this good, then hey, more power to you...I on the other hand read stuff on the fantastical, magical, sci-fi, historical, worldly matters..if you find bizarre sex acts good reading, then hey, that is your thing.

The class has to do with the psychology behind sexual acts, which does include masturbation.

And yes, there is MUCH educational value when learning such psychology in watching someone masturbate. As you can study a whole range of emotions go through them as they do so.

this is what I have been talking about...the taking crap and wrapping it with "intellectualism"....sorry, masturbating live in a class full of college kids has no academic value...why not watch it on video?...so they can freeze it and actually study the emotion on their faces?....

like I said, if we placed this much importance on math, science, and history, this country would be unstoppable..

It'd be my response.

Because it is quite hilarious.

However, I do believe Rita was more pointing towards the fact that the kit does NOT include fisting.

However, if one keeps seeing fisting in something that doesn't include fisting, it makes the source unreliable.

I just double checked the link...it does contain a lesson and tools on fisting...what the hell do you think the glove is for?

yes I too can clearly see the humor in my kid bringing home a manual and tools for fisting....clearly funny....man you people are disturbing..

I don't particularly think of myself as a "cool parent", but I certainly DO laugh my behind off at people who have all these idiotic hangups over sex.

Your 13 year old can read about sex.

It won't make them run off to the whorehouse.

Trust me.

get over yourselves....so parents don't want their kids educated about fisting or p*ssing on your partner means that they
have hang ups about sex?....most parents don't want to know about that crap themselves..

there is something wrong when you only want normal healthy sex (even gay sex) that you don't want to be bothered with fisting, p*ssing, and swallowing, somehow makes you a prude with hang ups about sex....

is sickness the new norm now?

Last I remembered, the case in question had to deal with a public venue.

Which the laws of such, if I am correct, specifically state that if the venue is public, than no one, gay or straight, can be turned away.

So, religious or not, it was wrong of them to do so.

Very prudish too.

they never denied a gay couple from renting a room before...they had to draw the line when it came to the rep hall and their religious views...besides, the law said that they couldn't be denied accommodations...it doesn't say they had to provided any and all accommodations.....they could still rent a room or whatever...

a restaurant made news for banning kids and some theaters ban kids after a certain hour....I don't recall anyone suing anyone demanding to be able to take their kids anywhere they please...most people realize that you can't always get your way...that they can't drag their kids anywhere...but homosexuals act like they have a right to go anywhere and do anything, even with other people's private property....equality my ass..

for the last time, you people aren't the only ones with rights..

If they practice bigotry against a group that really does no harm, then yes, I do consider them to be bigots.

this is what I have been talking about..of course you find them bigots...if you don't bend over for gays all the time, hell, if you simply don't even pay enough attention to them then by default you're a bigot..

"in your face and you better accept it".

And a prude .


Good.

Prudish cowards

Pretty much.

you're ok with a small family business taking a hit just cause you people couldn't get your way?...are you listening to yourself?...this has gone well beyond mere acceptance and into a almost militant, fanatical effort to destroy any disagreement in its entirety, no matter how minor, against homosexuals and force compliance....simply saying "no" warrants an effort to be destroyed by you people....but of course everyone else must be "tolerant"..

you're not even denying my charges...you're embracing them..."you damn right we are out to destroy anyone who doesn't give into our every demand and gladly impose our beliefs onto others".....don't we have a problem when religious people do this?

you people act like you're rights are the only ones that matter, that everyone else rights and beliefs can be dismissed...

Therefore wanting to impress upon them their own sick prudish morals.

jeez, wanting to keep your kids from reading about drug-induced gay orgies when they have no academic value to begin with, or any relevance means they have sick prudish morals?...

Logical, non-prudish people would say "Hey. My kid is in a 10th grade honours english class. I think they have a handle on things."

umm, having good academics and grades doesn't automatically mean you are mature..."ahh f*ck it, sure go out with that stranger and come back anytime you feel like it, its cool, you're in an honours class"...very logical..

You'd be hard-pressed to find ANYONE with that kind of mind and personality.

Judging by the prudes on here, at least.

so why are many here claiming teens, of all people are so mature and developed as to handle anything?

Teens know more about straight sex than most of the prudes practicing it right now.

yeah, teens have a firm grasp and handle on sex.....really?

Never said it was. Just idiotic and prudish.

and why is that?...can you tell my what literature and academic value this has?...

your response was very vindictive and disturbing....that if someone don't want this stuff that they find gross, extreme and just outright unnecessary, practically thrown in their faces well, they are prudish, hateful bigots that needs to be destroyed..

get over yourselves, some people just find this unnecessary..we just don't want to be bothered with it, we just don't care for it..not everyone wants you in their faces...you're not special..

before it was "to just be left alone"...now "you better pay attention and accept me...or else"...

[gizmo980]

Originally Posted by Workin_Hard

But it normalizes such relationships and makes them acceptable in the minds of children. Such are neither normal not acceptable.

Oh, so you speak for EVERY parent and teen in the US? Because I was raised to believe it IS normal and acceptable, and for you to disregard my parent's (and my) beliefs is incredibly self-righteous and pretentious... just because you have narrow-minded views about life, that doesn't give you the right to dictate what others should think & feel. Keep spending your money on private schools, better yet I suggest you start homeschooling them - as I went to private schools my whole life, and we were taught to accept & respect people of all sexual orientations there. We even had a few openly gay teachers, if you can imagine that!

Minds can be poisoned just as easily as bodies. Where is the disconnect on that fact?

Here's the "disconnect" - poison for the mind is an extremely subjective idea, whereas poison for the body is scientifically succinct (and provable). I'm guessing your mind was poisoned by backwards-thinking conservative religious dogma, and you probably think mine was poisoned by liberal debauchery and heathenism... so who is right and who is wrong? Hard to say, but if I slipped arsenic in your coffee I think we'd know you were harmed.

Agree. Except that I would change that to "...anything dealing positively with gay sex...". For one brief second, I'll take an objective compassionate angle here and say that why would you as a parent would instill in your child the concept that this is a good or acceptable choice knowing the ostracism and life they'll face as a result?

Because if they're gay they're gay, and no amount of religious/conservative drivel will change that simple fact. So if there's any chance my child might be gay, I don't want them feeling ashamed, embarrassed, suicidal, or alone in this world. I want them to know their feelings are natural, and that at least I am okay with it... I also want them to be comfortable talking with me, asking me for advice, and turning to me for support when times are rough. If they get bullied at school or discriminated against in public, I want them to at least find solace in knowing their mother (and hopefully father) is still there for them. Is that a good enough reason?

And if they aren't gay, I will have raised a child who doesn't judge others unfairly, and would never be a homophobic bully to those who are. That's how my parents raised the three of us, and we are all heterosexual but very accepting of differences... my brother's a macho baseball player/coach with a gorgeous long-term girlfriend, and his best friend in the world is a gay man. That is very cool, IMO.