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That's what turned me off. I haven't read the book. I don't think most people would describe Romeo and Juliet as a nostalgic book about suicide. And it doesn't include adult/child sex.
It was VERY "nostalgic" about suicide, in fact Romeo killed himself because of his love/mourning for Juliet... how much more nostalgic and romantic can a suicide get?
Btw, Juliet was only (around) 12 and Romeo 14 when they had sex, and Juliet's father wanted her to marry a 20-something year old. Hmmmmm.
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I guess I would have to read it
Yeah, that would be a good idea before passing judgment... I'm curious to read it myself, so once again the OP has done her job in encouraging and spreading the word!
Oh, so you speak for EVERY parent and teen in the US? Because I was raised to believe it IS normal and acceptable, and for you to disregard my parent's (and my) beliefs is incredibly self-righteous and pretentious... just because you have narrow-minded views about life, that doesn't give you the right to dictate what others should think & feel. Keep spending your money on private schools, better yet I suggest you start homeschooling them - as I went to private schools my whole life, and we were taught to accept & respect people of all sexual orientations there. We even had a few openly gay teachers, if you can imagine that!
Yet you're trying to decide for every parent that books and topics on issues listed in the thread title should be made available to children despite the values of the parents/families involved? So this is he-said-she-said. Who's right? It seems your belief in deciding what should be presented to my child, in contradiction to my values as a parent, is what is incredibly self-righteous and pretentious, and characterizing those values as "narrow-minded" is arrogance I have seldom seen, even in these forums. I'm not attempting to dictate what others should feel - you're entitled to your beliefs no matter how wrong I may feel that they are, but will not stand by while those of your ilk attempt to push your world view into the mind of my impressionable child. I feel homosexuality is wrong in any and all cases, and really could not care less if children who may believe they are leaning that way or who choose to act on such inclinations feel "ashamed, embarrassed, suicidal, or alone in this world". I stand by the belief that such behaviors indicate a mental/moral illness and if anything would advocate counseling and proper help for such individuals rather than encouraging more glitter and unicorn behavior and calling it "normal". Tolerance is required, acceptance is not. The whole "It Gets Better" campaign is a joke. Homosexuality's removal from the DSM in 1973 is the result of a political agenda, nothing more. But that deletion is a fact. It does not mean that values within my family change as a result of political winds.
Homeschooling is not an option for us. I'm thankful I have the means to send my child to a private school. On the occasion where I have disagreed philosophically with what is being taught, I have spoken to the teacher and made clear my position. An example was where my daughter came home and said to me in a whisper "Gun is a bad word, Daddy!" I explained that a gun is not bad, it is simply a tool like a hammer or screwdriver you need to accomplish a certain job. If a wheel on her bike is wobbly, I use a wrench to tighten it. If someone breaks into our home to steal or harm us, I will use a gun to stop them by shooting them. You may disagree with me teaching my child this (I just used it as an example), but my house - my family - my child - my values - my choice. Not yours.
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Originally Posted by gizmo980
Here's the "disconnect" - poison for the mind is an extremely subjective idea, whereas poison for the body is scientifically succinct (and provable). I'm guessing your mind was poisoned by backwards-thinking conservative religious dogma, and you probably think mine was poisoned by liberal debauchery and heathenism... so who is right and who is wrong? Hard to say, but if I slipped arsenic in your coffee I think we'd know you were harmed.
Subjective? The perhaps the Nazi ideology and resulting movement which killed millions was "just a bad choice" but that judgement is subjective, right? Islam, which advocates the killing of infidels, is subjectively just a bad thing, but then I'm passing my own judgement with no objectivity? (Tell that to the thousands who died on 9/11 and those who continue to die every single day as a result of it.) After all, do we know anyone is/was harmed by either of these idealogies or perhaps that's all subjective too?
You dare to call my beliefs backward and would object to my characterization of yours as destructive, while your attempt to spread yours through our schools, our society, and given the chance, directly into the mind of my child should she be made available through your school or library? For the record, yes, I went to private school through elementary, high school, (no, there were no openly-homosexual students or teachers in my HS, although we did suspect a few of the more-effeminate guys were) and even a private university (no religious affiliation) to the post-graduate level. And I owe no allegiance to any particular religious dogma and in fact eschew most as noting more than people's own choice of which mythology to follow.
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Originally Posted by gizmo980
Because if they're gay they're gay, and no amount of religious/conservative drivel will change that simple fact. So if there's any chance my child might be gay, I don't want them feeling ashamed, embarrassed, suicidal, or alone in this world. I want them to know their feelings are natural, and that at least I am okay with it... I also want them to be comfortable talking with me, asking me for advice, and turning to me for support when times are rough. If they get bullied at school or discriminated against in public, I want them to at least find solace in knowing their mother (and hopefully father) is still there for them. Is that a good enough reason?
I agree on the religious part and don't believe any stories about invisible friends in the sky will have a real impact. However, I also don't believe it is the responsibility of society as a whole to "remedy" through normalization the behavior-based character flaws so a group of outcasts feels better about their choices. Life's not fair, get used to it. Life's rough, deal it. Choices and actions have consequences, and no one is obligated to accomodate your weird needs to prance around acting like you were born something you're not. Natural laws have no pity, and compassion is best saved for those who deserve it, not those who bring about their own misfortune through bad choices.
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Originally Posted by gizmo980
And if they aren't gay, I will have raised a child who doesn't judge others unfairly, and would never be a homophobic bully to those who are. That's how my parents raised the three of us, and we are all heterosexual but very accepting of differences... my brother's a macho baseball player/coach with a gorgeous long-term girlfriend, and his best friend in the world is a gay man. That is very cool, IMO.
That's your family/personal choice. Same with your brother. I don't agree but would defend your/his right to make such decisions on who/what to have interact with your children. All I would ask is the same respect in return without such vehement villification of my choices, including not seeking opportunities to infect the minds of children of parents whose values differ from yours. You call it "progressive", some of us take a different view.
If through some cosmic injustice my child were to choose to follow such a lifestyle, I would still love her. I'd miss her, but I'd still love her. I work every day towards teaching her how to make good choices.
Here is yet another link confirming the assigned books, the inappropriateness of them, etc. - this time from a New Jersey newspaper. It is interesting to read the comments at the bottom, one from a parent who had a student in the school. She describes even more outrageous content, including the graphic rape of boys by men.
"One such selection, “Norwegian Wood,” which was on the required reading list for incoming tenth-grade honors English students, includes a graphic depiction of a lesbian sex scene between a 31-year-old woman and a 13-year-old girl."
"Another selection, from the seniors honors class, “Tweak (Growing up on Methamphetamines),” describes a drug-fueled, homosexual orgy."
"This stunning and elegiac novel by the author of the internationally acclaimed Wind-Up Bird Chronicle has sold over 4 million copies in Japan and is now available to American audiences for the first time. It is sure to be a literary event.
Toru, a quiet and preternaturally serious young college student in Tokyo, is devoted to Naoko, a beautiful and introspective young woman, but their mutual passion is marked by the tragic death of their best friend years before. Toru begins to adapt to campus life and the loneliness and isolation he faces there, but Naoko finds the pressures and responsibilities of life unbearable. As she retreats further into her own world, Toru finds himself reaching out to others and drawn to a fiercely independent and sexually liberated young woman.
A poignant story of one college student's romantic coming-of-age, Norwegian Wood takes us to that distant place of a young man's first, hopeless, and heroic love."
That's your family/personal choice. Same with your brother. I don't agree but would defend your/his right to make such decisions on who/what to have interact with your children. All I would ask is the same respect in return without such vehement villification of my choices, including not seeking opportunities to infect the minds of children of parents whose values differ from yours. You call it "progressive", some of us take a different view.
If through some cosmic injustice my child were to choose to follow such a lifestyle, I would still love her. I'd miss her, but I'd still love her. I work every day towards teaching her how to make good choices.
The big difference is that your opinion and words on this matter, and by extension the words and actions of your children has the potential to inflict emotional harm on others. That is what I have a problem with, and that is why I will continue to make my voice heard.
no one can disagree, no one can have limits, everything is acceptable under the guise of "intellectualism"?
this book wouldn't even be acceptable if it was about straight people....I would know, one of my favorite books in High-School was banned in some parts of the country, and it didn't have a single sex act in it...just alot of heavy reading between the lines stuff..
It IS about straight people.
Something that seems to have become lost in all the hysterical anti-gay posts.
The big difference is that your opinion and words on this matter, and by extension the words and actions of your children has the potential to inflict emotional harm on others. That is what I have a problem with, and that is why I will continue to make my voice heard.
And I contend that your words and actions on this matter have the potential to inflict emotional and moral harm on not only my children, but on the society in which we live. Any "emotional" harm to the glitter-and-unicorn crowd I consider to be self-inflicted by their choices. I'm really not worred about their "feelings". Time for them to put on their 'big girl panties' and deal with it.
I have a problem with your efforts and that is why I will continue to make my voice heard, more loudly, as well.
And I contend that your words and actions on this matter have the potential to inflict emotional and moral harm on not only my children, but on the society in which we live. Any "emotional" harm to the glitter-and-unicorn crowd I consider to be self-inflicted by their choices. I'm really not worred about their "feelings". Time for them to put on their 'big girl panties' and deal with it.
I have a problem with your efforts and that is why I will continue to make my voice heard, more loudly, as well.
So you saying people are vile, disgusting, and abnormal can be equated to me saying leave people alone, and quit picking on them? Umm...no, sorry, not even close.
no one can disagree, no one can have limits, everything is acceptable under the guise of "intellectualism"?
this book wouldn't even be acceptable if it was about straight people....I would know, one of my favorite books in High-School was banned in some parts of the country, and it didn't have a single sex act in it...just alot of heavy reading between the lines stuff..
a college professor had a sex toy demonstration that caused all kinds of problems....are you going to say that "those people aren't just mature and intelligent enough to handle and get it"?...I mean these are young college adults...
why most no one ever criticize anything "homosexual"?.....you have any idea how much crap straight people get about porn, sex outside of marriage, prostitution, etc?...no matter what your sexuality is someplace, somewhere, someone had a problem with it....most of us ignored it and moved on....but with homosexuals, they act like if you don't want to see them blowing each other in front of your kids, you hate them or something....that stuff wouldn't be acceptable for straight people...equality my ass ..
listen, your gay, that is fine, that doesn't mean people want it thrown in their faces all the time...people don't even want straightness or whatever thrown in their faces and especially their kids faces all the time....
this seems to be a recurring theme, gay people demanding to get away with stuff straight people wouldn't be able to....no matter how "in your face" and graphic it is and no matter who it targets, (they can go after your children) your suppose to "accept" it...and if you don't well "you're just a hateful, homophobic, ignorant, bigot"...or something...
people have a problem with this book, that doesn't mean they hate gays and are ignorant...
I myself have seen a pamphlet on gay sex...everything from the conventional anal to outright p*ssing on your partner (didn't know that was so common among the gay community that they had to put it in a pamphlet...go figure) targeting school kids...but, that was a small isolated, albeit weird one...
"you're just not smart and enlighten enough to get meth induced gay orgies with prepubescent kids"......what?
some parents don't want their kids reading certain things, alot of that stuff has to do with gay and straight sex.....you people aren't as special as you want to believe..
Nice rant.
Shame your rant is wasted, as these books are NOT about gays and homosexuality.
What is it with the anti-gay people on this thread?
The books are about STRAIGHT people for goodness sake.
Nice rant. Shame it has nothing to do with books in question.
What is it with all the people on this thread that think these books are about gay people and homosexuality?
The books are about STRAIGHT people for goodness sake.
Sshhhhh! You are ruining the rant what with your facts and logic. Pffft!
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That's how my parents raised the three of us, and we are all heterosexual but very accepting of differences... my brother's a macho baseball player/coach with a gorgeous long-term girlfriend, and his best friend in the world is a gay man. That is very cool, IMO.
