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You seriously are trying to make a comparision between theses two books? Wow.
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Brave New World has been banned and challenged at various times. In 1932, the book was banned in Ireland for its language, and for supposedly being anti-family and anti-religion. The American Library Association ranks Brave New World as #52 on their list of most challenged books. In 1980, it was removed from classrooms in Miller, Missouri among other challenges. In 1993, an unsuccessful attempt was made to remove the novel from a California school's required reading list because it "centered around negative activity".
Sounds precisely analogous to me! It's only the passage of time that makes "Brave New World" more palatable to you, to the point it either seems quaint, or you accept that it's considered great literature.
LOL! I haven't been inside one in ten years, minimum. But I do know a couple of people who do go inside... I was scared off by the 3 foot dildos.
But I admire a woman who can take on a challenge! Show me you can do it and I think we can overcome all these other differences we have... Send pictures!
Teenagers most CERTAINLY are children ... and from a very carefully conducted evaluation, a good number of college students are too. 20 year olds riding skateboards and tiny bicycles that look to be the size of the bike I road when I was 6 years old!!! And when they aren't doing that, they are playing video games. You think these are signs of maturity?
Thanks for generalizing about all of us, GuyNTexas. I'm 21 and I've never been on a skateboard, never played a video game, and yes I have been on a bike, but it was during family outings.
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Furthermore, 13 is technically a teenager ... which can be as young as one day older than a 12 year old. Do you think a 12 year old is wise enough to make their own decisions about life ... and what is best for themselves? Do you believe that whatever they "want" is OK for them to have or do?
Where has anyone implied this?
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But the better question is .... if there is "no agenda" to sexualize these children or mold social-sexual views ..... then none of this is appropriate for any of the kids in school at any age. Their knowledge of the entire pallet of sexual possibilities is NOT the responsibility of the government or public school system to impart to them, nor does this area of sexual education need to be comprehensive and complete by high school graduation time. That's not the purpose of education .... or is it?
With the deplorable state of academics today .... maybe refocusing the priorities toward reading, writing, math, science, and PARTICULARLY civics class would be more beneficial than assuring comprehensive sex training?
Sex does need to be discussed to some degree by high school because by the time most people are in high school, they are interested in it and do try to have it. I can understand arguing that sex is too mature a topic for middle schoolers, but for high schoolers? Most high schoolers have had sex, so don't you think they can handle talking about sex between two novel characters in an educational setting?
Don't even get me started on Greek mythology. The Odyssey--Penelope with her 108 suitors? Oedipus Rex--incest? Need I go on? Where are the people complaining about these? We can't even say behind the times because those are from way long ago. When did sex become such a touchy subject? It doesn't seem the Greeks had an issue with it.
Don't even get me started on Greek mythology. The Odyssey--Penelope with her 108 suitors? Oedipus Rex--incest? Need I go on? Where are the people complaining about these? We can't even say behind the times because those are from way long ago. When did sex become such a touchy subject? It doesn't seem the Greeks had an issue with it.
Here's probably the correlation:
They can understand the words written in modern novels.
They actually have to think when reading Greek epic poems or Shakespearean plays.
that may be true....I don't know, no way of verifying that..but, not everything has a intellectual, insightful, stimulating meaning to it...sometimes, crap is crap, no matter how hard you try to assign "intellectualism" to it....would you argue Soul Plane was a brilliant movie because it had alot of "mature" and "controversial" themes in it?...
Never saw Soul Plane.
I did, however, read As I Lay Dying, Brave New World, 1984, Fahrenheit 451, Catcher in the Rye, The Color Purple, To Kill a Mockingbird, Schindler's List, Lolita, Romeo and Juliet, Lord of the Flies, Animal Farm, The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, and plenty more.
All of these were actually book assignments, some in middle school. The "mature" and "controversial" themes in each book were not what made them brilliant literary pieces. The story presented and the method by which it is presented is why they are brilliant.
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I don't know what point you were tyring to make...that book too was banned and heavily criticized...even accusations of plagiarism....just because it contained straight people didn't stop others from railing against it...
were the ones who did it hateful bigots for it?
Now, I never called or even insinuated that anyone a hateful bigot regarding the books in the OP. Prudes? maybe. And I feel the same way about the people who attempted to ban Brave New World. They're prudes.
1) The course was called Human Sexuality. Orgasms are a part of that.
2) This was an optional demonstration/activity, much like other demonstrations and activities that the professor has offered.
3) The woman in question was not a student.
4) "Students were reportedly warned about the explicit nature of the demonstration, and were urged to skip the event if they were worried about being uncomfortable."
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no but I have see fisting kits gave out to high-school kids
I seem to notice that the kit has instructions for how to make a "dental dam". You don't make a dental dam for fisting. You make a dental dam for oral. Still in bad taste, but just pointing that out.
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...and when parents and others tried to speak against it...you guessed it, they were "ignorant bigots" or something...because they didn't want their kids exposed to this..yes, maybe I did overdo it with the hyperbole...but parents can't even try to shield them from certain things they do...that they have to force it on your kids otherwise you're a bigot...
If, when my daughter is in high school, she brings home one of these kits. I'd probably point and laugh at it until she's too embarrassed to think of giving oral.
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I have seen people defend stuff like this..about fisting, p*ssing on each other, swallowing?.....that this is acceptable to hand out to anyone...let alone kids....why?...well if you don't you just hate gays you bigot....people wouldn't want this stuff handed out to kids even if its about straight people...
I've seen people defend any number of reprehensible things. Why? Because they can.
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and when a gay couple was denied a rep hall, they sued, anyone else would have just found another place, but no, this couple sued....yeah, sh*t like this kinda means "gayness being thrown in your face"...and when you simply try to look away, they scream "BIGOT!!"...
If I was looking for a venue and was told "no", I'd go elsewhere. If I was told "no. We don't rent to jews", I'd be pretty pissed. Then I'd sue for $1 to make sure everybody and their brother knew the kind of people that ran the place.
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what?
That was in reference to this response that was made when I first referenced Brave New World.
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you are right......but heterosexuals didn't think its so common that they designed a pamphlet for students and kids on how to do it "safely"...
See my first link. Heterosexual sex pamphlet.
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no one posted it, its the common rebuttal...that if you don't want to be bothered with this mess, well you're just not "smart" enough to "handle" it...
I'm seeing more of a trend akin to "I feel that the kids should be mature enough to handle a book that has mature themes or events. Don't take their maturity for granted."
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I sure hope so..
In the school system I graduated from, it was a district policy. You could object to any book for any reason and the teacher had to provide an alternate.
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again, some people don't want this...even if it was about straight people...even if you try to wrap it in a intellectual package and rhetoric...they don't want it....that doesn't make them "homophobes"...every criticism isn't "homophobic"...get over yourselves
But here's the thing. If people are so up in arms about these books, why are they not protesting other books as vehemently? What makes these books different?
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Originally Posted by Workin_Hard
Are there still adult bookstores around? I haven't seen one in years. If so, I'm surprised as I'm sure more and better stuff is available online. Maybe you can direct me to the one you frequent... ... since you seem to be so knowlegable on the topic of what's inside.
I could give you a list, but it would only help you if you lived in Virginia.
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Originally Posted by Zimbochick
This thread is hilarious. Where I went to school our required reading included D.H.Lawrence, Vladimir Nabokov, Joseph Conrad, Shakespeare, Chaucer. These were hard-hitting books filled to the brim with sex and violence. The themes were thought-provoking, and great for discussion and debate. Apparently young people no longer have the capacity to appreciate and study literature, or posess any type of critical thinking skills. What a bleak future if they are going to be expected to read Little House on the Prairie every year.
inorite!
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Originally Posted by robbobobbo
I have not read this thread past page 12 yet, wow is it popular!
One thing that keeps being repeated is the assertion that these books were not only assigned to high school students, but also assigned, recommended, or required for middle school students. The age of 10 keeps popping up in the discussion.
The article in the Blaze mentions mentions middle school students. It refers to Fox News as a source of the story.
They refer to the Gloucester County Times as the source and link to it.
The Gloucester County Times makes no mention of middle school. The list was issued at Williamstown High School, "Norwegian Wood" was a choice on the list for a 10th grade honors English class, and "Tweak" was a choice on the list for a 12th grade honors English class.
There is no mention that the books were suggested for middle schoolers.
Shhhhh. Your facts are getting in the way.
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I'm about a third of the way through "Norwegian Wood" now. No homosexuality yet, but heterosexual sex, although not written in a lurid smutty way. Will give a full review when I'm done.
You yourself mention how many suicides among teens there are. So don't you suppose that teens know about suicide without having read about it in fiction? There is a very good chance that a teen has heard of a kid committing suicide, or personally known a person who committed suicide (a teen, a friend's parent, et al), counseled a friend with suicidal thoughts, or has even thought about suicide in their teen moments of despair. Suicide is not a secret. I knew of two suicides of people under age 20 in my town before I was 10 years old.
I was very suicidal as a child and teenager. Reading about suicide in literature helped me realize the effect it would have on the people around me and made me less likely to actually go through with it. I think if anything, reading books about these themes would help kids deal with their own real-life scenarios.
This thread is secretly part of the progressive agenda!
IT'S ENCOURAGING...
READING!
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Send pictures! 
