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What are your degree(s) in? Why is that hard to believe that mine are in computer science and engineering? If this is how you deal with information that runs contrary to your belief system (which is, you said, liberals all get fluff degrees in liberal arts) you must be very difficult to educate.
Would you like to see some C++ code? How about Java w/ the Android SDK?
Location: Currently I physically reside on the 3rd planet from the sun
2,220 posts, read 1,878,581 times
Reputation: 886
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Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge
I don't dismiss anecdotal evidence. I understand that scientists are rightfully skeptical of anecdotal evidence, preferring statistics and observable phenomena that can be reproduced, but when it comes to human beings, often I see anecdotal evidence being given short shrift. Clearly, anecdotes are highly subjective, we often tend to hear and see what we expect or want to see, rather than what is objectively there. And that was what I was trying to point out when I commented on your conversation with your gay friend, and the fact that you shared that your friend didn't use the "exact words". Objectively, the "exact words" are what's needed to make the point you were trying to make. But subjectively, the anecdote tells us a lot about you. That you have gay friends, and that they are REAL friends, not just acquaintances, because the conversation was substantive and intimate. That this is an issue that you are curious about, otherwise the conversation would never have taken place. That you have strong feelings about it, which your friend was aware of, since your friend couched his feelings in a way that you would be comfortable with. So, I don't dismiss anecdotal evidence at all. And I respect that you've been honest and forthright about your feelings on this thread, especially given that it's an issue that stirs such strong feelings.
I very much appreciate your thoughtful, considerate and reasoned comments. I have some very high quality friends who happen to be gay that I am very fond of and resent being called a homophobe.
What are your degree(s) in? Why is that hard to believe that mine are in computer science and engineering? If this is how you deal with information that runs contrary to your belief system (which is, you said, liberals all get fluff degrees in liberal arts) you must be very difficult to educate.
Would you like to see some C++ code? How about Java w/ the Android SDK?
and I am sorry, but to this day I still know those who lean to the left get degrees in "liberal arts" and complain that they can't get a job or not making as much as those "greedy right-wingers"..... its ok, at least your more "educated" then us right wing ignorant idiots...feel good about that..
Jeese, you're bemoaning a general and well rounded education rich in the "liberal arts" - science, math, language, literature, history, and philosophy. I undertook an undergraduate education at a liberal arts college that required study in all these disciplines. I then chose to focus on, and get a degree in, the "liberal art" of chemistry.
this may be a "good" book, don't know...but the "incidental sex scenes" have no academic value...it may be great for "entertainment", but I fail to see how discussing such scenes would further a students education....
But see, you really can't determine that without reading the book! I agree 100% about gratuitous sex which is just pornography, but there's no way you can separate the illicit sex and lust from a masterpiece like Lolita from the work as a whole.
It seems extraordinarily unlikely that any teacher would select a book solely for is prurient content.
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one complaint was “I don’t think that’s relevant for any teenager"...that parents and others saw no purpose this served....you see, some parents want to give their kids a useful education, not philosophical crap that has no meaning to anything..
I don't know about you, but when I was a teenager there wasn't anything more relevant in my mind than sex. As for your "philosophical crap" comment - wow. That just makes me sad that you put such low value on culture. I'm eternally grateful that my parents did not have this attitude, and in addition (not instead of) teaching me the three R's, also instilled in my a knowledge and appreciation of literature and art. I can think of myriad reasons why they are important, but let me give you just one example: kids that don't read the good stuff end up being terrible writers, which is a handicap for them in ANY career.
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whether or not these books have "meaning" or not is subjective....my point was that if people defended the need for kids to raise their mathematical, scientific, and historical abilities as their need to read crap like this, well, this country would have no limit...
It's not as subjective as you seem to think. These books are considered important because there is a widespread consensus - sometimes centuries old - that they have educational and cultural value.
I was both a science major AND a liberal arts major. BOTH have been absolutely essential to my career and success in it. In fact, I can tell you that my liberal arts education has actually been MORE useful overall.
Any boob can learn substantive facts by rote memorization, but the stuff you consider so fluffy and unnecessary is actually the stuff that teaches people how to think. Hence my previous comment about people having no critical thinking skills.
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you do know that a scene takes place between the 13 year old and a 31 year old?.....I am sure he is against that to, does that make him a pedophobic?.....or is homophobia the only thing that can be recognized because "gay feelings" are the only thing that matter?
Without reading the book itself, I don't know what significance it has or what message it sends. Neither do you.
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again, "homophobia" isn't everywhere you look....sometimes people just don't want to be bothered with crap like this.....deal with it...
It is rampant in this thread, however.
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what wrong?...did I strike a nerve?.....i don't value pseudo-philosophical,intellectual dribble as much as those "enlighten" liberals?....
More's the pity for you.
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and I am sorry, but to this day I still know those who lean to the left get degrees in "liberal arts" and complain that they can't get a job or not making as much as those "greedy right-wingers"..... its ok, at least your more "educated" then us right wing ignorant idiots...feel good about that..
I also have degrees from a liberal arts university. They are in marine science, coastal geology and education. I'd have to say that 99% of my classmates were also liberals, especially in the science field.
Location: Currently I physically reside on the 3rd planet from the sun
2,220 posts, read 1,878,581 times
Reputation: 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlassoff
I'm pretty sure if you asked your friend directly he would tell you it wasn't a choice. I've never met a gay person who has. Neither has any other gay person I've discussed it with. But of course you have an anecdote... And that trumps the actual experience of being gay, right?
Yea, now you're repeating yourself, I read you the first time and no, it's not a contest, the whole point of an anectdotal experience is it does not represent scientific or factual evidence - it by definition is subjective. You're "actual experience" is also anectdotal.
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Originally Posted by mlassoff
So gays were molested? that's your new justification? I was never manipulated in to it. My parents were staunchly against it (but have since come around).
Nice extrapolation upon my comment, but I would agree that in some instances this may very well be valid. Early experiences tend to set a precedence for future behavior which I believe is also why many women routinely seek out domineering and violent men and vice-versa.
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Originally Posted by mlassoff
I'm sorry, you call me a social authoritarian, when you are the one opposing my rights? I find that laughable. I am not telling you to get a gay marriage. I am simply wanting society to accept mine. So you can do whatever you want, but I am restricted-- Yet I am the authoritarian.
I personally believe that marriage is a social institution whose primary purpose is to create an optimum environment for raising children. That said however, I would like to see the federal government get out of the marriage business altogether and turn it over to religious organizations and business contracts. You want to be married, found a church that recognizes your union - you want inheritance, medical access etc. rights, create a legal contract between yourselves specifying these conditions.
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Originally Posted by mlassoff
Another bigot who feels that diversity should include his freedom to project his bigotry and codify it in to law-- Restricting the freedoms and rights of groups that he doesn't belong to to satisfy his theory based on an anecdote.
Nice sarcasm, and at least you didn't call me a homophobe, just a bigot.
I oppose the legislation of morality - whether that morality is from a gay or straight perspective. In a free society the government doesn't dictate social behavior.
not sure a degree in Shakespeare would put food on the table and pay the bills...but it could be that you and I have different views on "academic value"..
I am in no way diminishing the importance of Shakespeare...but work like his is more leisure...sitting around pondering the meaning of "to be or not to be" or whatever isn't accomplishing anything like building a robot or a house..
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That "philosophical crap" actually does have meaning.
It gets the readers to think critically.
Of course, we can't have that! THE KIDS MUST ABIDE MY MY MORALS AND NOT BE INDOCTRINATED WITH COMMON SENSE.
ohh, get over yourself...of course you people think you are so "smart" and "educated" from reading stuff like this....it wasn't crap like this that brought about the industrial/tech revolution....no matter how much "critical thinking" it did...
I love how the way that if you find no merit and value in crap like this...well, you're just not "smart" enough to get it...
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Very true.
If someone is dumb enough to not see the meaning behind the books, then they won't have any meaning.
ok
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Homophobia?
No.
Not in the literal sense, anyways.
Bigotry?
Yes.
this is a book....a fictitious one written by an Asian author over 25 years ago that has drugs, orgies, pedophilia and all kinds of crap.....what is this "bigotry" aimed at?....it could be that parents and others saw no value in this but you people can't see pass your "ideology" or something..
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Which is why this liberal is working towards a degree in business management, right?
of course you are
LoL, for every liberal here on this thread I can recall 3 more liberals who I ran into real-life that got fancy degrees in "medieval philosophy" or something...been seeing that since high-school....kinda gotta go with real-life experience and not random internet posters....
you could very well be telling the "truth"....ok...you can have that..
and I am sure if I said "liberals don't own airplanes"...a bunch of liberals would crawl out of the woodwork claiming they own all kinds of "airplanes"...how do I know?..because I did something like that a year ago...who the hell owns an airplane?...and these liberals happen to be right there, at that very moment to tell me?...really?...
not sure a degree in Shakespeare would put food on the table and pay the bills...but it could be that you and I have different views on "academic value"..
.but work like his is more leisure...sitting around pondering the meaning of "to be or not to be" or whatever isn't accomplishing anything like building a robot or house..
THis pretty much says it all right here.
Not liking Shakespeare, I can get. Not everyone can think past a 3rd grade level and understand the language he uses.
However, diminishing the academic importance of his works?
Yeah.
Okay.
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