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"Most of us can remember many of the books on the assigned reading list in middle and high school — from Charles Dickens’ “Great Expectations” to Fyodor Dostoyevsky’s “Crime and Punishment.” Today, however, required reading for students apparently includes “Tweak: Growing up on Methamphetamines,” a book that features a scene depicting a homosexual orgy and “Norwegian Wood,” a book that features a sex scene between a 31-year-old woman and a 13-year old girl."
There was a time I wouldn't have believed this type of reading material was available in a public school library, let alone recommended or even required for not only high schoolers but middle schoolers as well. But, that was before my 10 year old dd entered middle school in 5th grade in a new district. Then, I saw the type of books being recommended and/or required by her teachers and I started doing some research and discovered books in the school library that contained the type of material described in this story. I doubt that many parents realize what is being pushed on their children in the guise of "literature" in our local bookstores, public libraries and even in our schools. Many of these books come packaged in cute little pink covers. And for those that say even the classics or the Bible have references to sex and profanity, I have read both types of books and there is a glaring difference. One may have references; the other graphic depictions with little or no moral consequences.
Ok well first off I have read tweak and if that book did anything for me it was to urge me to never touch a drug in my life. He explained how terrible everything had turned out for him. Yes it does have some sex scenes by I don't recall a homosexual orgy... If you look pass the sex scenes it could easily be a book that influences kids to stay drug free. And yes I did get it from my school library. Aside from that books in high school, unless they are real stories tend to have no effect on a teenager. If a teenager is effected or encouraged to do something because of a fictional book with fictional people (which most books are) then there's more problems than the reading material that is available.
In addition to that do you realize that most of the time true stories are about overcoming some sort of issue such as rape or sexual abuse and the effect it's had on their life which usually includes turning to prostituition and drugs a lot of the time. Books such as The Freedom Writers are true stories which are very excplit but it's one of the books that I look back on and will never forget. I admire the teacher and the students inthat story regardless what they have done. I think the censorship on books is ridiculous. Which is why "Banned Book Week" ( at least in my district ) is celebrated. We celebrate because it separates us from other countries because we had the freedom to press.
parents should know what's in the school library but at the end of the day a student will pick whatever he or she wants to and you may never know about it.
Bottom line is you cannot censor books because we live in a day and age where the freedom to write is guaranteed so people will write about whatever they like. You can chose to like it and accept I for what it is or not.
However I don't agree with the middle school except maybe the 8th grade
Wrong! Disingenuous. What liberals want is for people to think the way they do, because that is, after all, the correct way.
Irony at it's finest.
Which people are saying certain books shouldn't be available to students? The people restricting access are the ones who want "people to think the way they do, because that is, after all, the correct way." We police people (restrict access, restrict behavior) to make people conform. The people who want to extend access, to give people more choices, are not the ones trying to control the way people think.
If you actually read the books under discussion, instead of joining in the condemnation without having read them, then you might be better able to judge their literary merit. It is, after all, people who haven't read the books asserting that there is any level of prurience.
I just finished reading it yesterday. Wow, that was a pretty darn good book. And yes, it did indeed have a lesbian scene! However, there's no pedophilia. In fact, there's more heterosexual deviance than homosexual - bar hopping for chicks to sleep with, switching chicks in the middle of the night, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattypatty
Good point about Lolita, but the reader knew that Humbert Humbert was one screwed up guy and he destroyed a little girl's life, as well as his own. There was no glorification of wrongdoing, though the moral tone was subtle, not didactic.
Also I think we need to make a distinction between pedophilia and sexual attraction to an underage minor. These are two different things. Attraction to a sexually undeveloped child is pedophilia, while attraction to a sexually mature male or female who happens to be under the age of 18 - well, I'm not sure what to call that other than misguided perhaps, but hardly pedophilia in my mind.
Lolita is one of the greatest books ever written. I wonder if the same can be said for these books under discussion. There is usually an inverse relationship between the prurience level and the literary merit.
Except that in Norwegian Wood, there is NO pedophilia or ephebophilia. The scene that contains a 30 something with a 13 year old girl - the 13 year old initiated it. The 30-year old put a stop to it by slapping the girl. The girl lies her teeth off to her mother and neighborhood about how the older woman tried to rape her. The entire ordeal put the already mentally unstable older woman into a despair that lasted over seven years.
The 13-year old girl destroyed her.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brentwoodgirl
I've researched some different sites that summarize the book and have discussions by people who have read the book. And a lot of those discussions deal with what happened to the main character after the book ended, since the book is open ended.
Well, it's no spoiler if you read the first page, but he doesn't commit suicide. Norwegian Wood starts off with him being 37 and reminiscing. At the end of the book where it is left open-ended, he's 20.
It reminds me slightly of Catcher in the Rye, where it seems open-ended, but if you carefully read at the beginning, you know that the kid is in a mental hospital.
However, it's waaaay more obvious with Norwegian Wood.
Last edited by gallowsCalibrator; 08-29-2011 at 09:04 AM..
I just finished reading it yesterday. Wow, that was a pretty darn good book. And yes, it did indeed have a lesbian scene! However, there's no pedophilia. In fact, there's more heterosexual deviance than homosexual - bar hopping for chicks to sleep with, switching chicks in the middle of the night, etc.
Except that in Norwegian Wood, there is NO pedophilia or ephebophilia. The scene that contains a 30 something with a 13 year old girl - the 13 year old initiated it. The 30-year old put a stop to it by slapping the girl. The girl lies her teeth off to her mother and neighborhood about how the older woman tried to rape her. The entire ordeal put the already mentally unstable older woman into a despair that lasted over seven years.
The 13-year old girl destroyed her.
Well, it's no spoiler if you read the first page, but he doesn't commit suicide. Norwegian Wood starts off with him being 37 and reminiscing. At the end of the book where it is left open-ended, he's 20.
It reminds me slightly of Catcher in the Rye, where it seems open-ended, but if you carefully read at the beginning, you know that the kid is in a mental hospital.
However, it's waaaay more obvious with Norwegian Wood.
I've added it to my reading list, and your reaction to the book sound like I'll really enjoy it.
Just as a note, the second quote that's attributed to me is not mine. When you click on it, it leads to something completely different. Odd.
I've added it to my reading list, and your reaction to the book sound like I'll really enjoy it.
The amount of depth into the culture, lifestyle, and emotions drew me in. Around 2 or 3am on Saturday, my husband had to force the book out of my hand because I was just reading and reading and reading. The ending left me with the same sense of "woah..." that Catcher in the Rye did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge
Just as a note, the second quote that's attributed to me is not mine. When you click on it, it leads to something completely different. Odd.
Fixed that! My copy-pasta failed.
I will add, as a quick edit, that if you read the book and are not familiar with Japanese culture (norms, taboos, etc), then you may want to have some cliffnotes handy. As this is a Japanese story, there are a lot of things you might miss otherwise. The book has a lot more depth than just the words on the pages.
Last edited by gallowsCalibrator; 08-29-2011 at 09:22 AM..
I just finished reading it yesterday. Wow, that was a pretty darn good book. And yes, it did indeed have a lesbian scene! However, there's no pedophilia. In fact, there's more heterosexual deviance than homosexual - bar hopping for chicks to sleep with, switching chicks in the middle of the night, etc.
Except that in Norwegian Wood, there is NO pedophilia or ephebophilia. The scene that contains a 30 something with a 13 year old girl - the 13 year old initiated it. The 30-year old put a stop to it by slapping the girl. The girl lies her teeth off to her mother and neighborhood about how the older woman tried to rape her. The entire ordeal put the already mentally unstable older woman into a despair that lasted over seven years.
The 13-year old girl destroyed her.
Well, it's no spoiler if you read the first page, but he doesn't commit suicide. Norwegian Wood starts off with him being 37 and reminiscing. At the end of the book where it is left open-ended, he's 20.
It reminds me slightly of Catcher in the Rye, where it seems open-ended, but if you carefully read at the beginning, you know that the kid is in a mental hospital.
However, it's waaaay more obvious with Norwegian Wood.
Thank you!
Just shows the "homosexual hysteria" of some people who don't bother to even read the books they are using as examples to vilify gay people.
Btw, I'm in charge of ordering ALL of the teen books for our library, and I do include some titles that touch on adult subjects & homosexuality... but I'd say it's maybe 1-2% of the entire YA collection, and again you're free to pass by them if you're not interested. Public libraries serve the PUBLIC, which includes gay/bi citizens, and people in general who have sex. Should we not carry a copy of the Christian Bible, simply because some of our patrons aren't Christian? And should I discard all books on immigration because some people think our borders should be closed? The answer is no, as long as other views are also represented in our books.
The "public" that requires these types of books need to visit the back room of the local porn shop for their fix. There used to be a thing called "community standards".
The amount of depth into the culture, lifestyle, and emotions drew me in. Around 2 or 3am on Saturday, my husband had to force the book out of my hand because I was just reading and reading and reading. The ending left me with the same sense of "woah..." that Catcher in the Rye did.
Fixed that! My copy-pasta failed.
I will add, as a quick edit, that if you read the book and are not familiar with Japanese culture (norms, taboos, etc), then you may want to have some cliffnotes handy. As this is a Japanese story, there are a lot of things you might miss otherwise. The book has a lot more depth than just the words on the pages.
Okay, so your recommendations are moving this book up in the pile to be read. So many great books....so little time......
The "public" that requires these types of books need to visit the back room of the local porn shop for their fix. There used to be a thing called "community standards".
I can't wait till you read to the end of this thread and read Rita's post explaining what the supposed "gay" books the OP ranted about, were really about.
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I just finished reading it yesterday. Wow, that was a pretty darn good book. And yes, it did indeed have a lesbian scene! However, there's no pedophilia. In fact, there's more heterosexual deviance than homosexual - bar hopping for chicks to sleep with, switching chicks in the middle of the night, etc.
