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Norway has a much lower crime rate than ours. You know as well as I that one tragedy does not provide data from which to make policy....and no one said or implied that any law can ever stop all criminal activity.
Prove it has anything to do with gun laws. Go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95
Human beings are born with independent minds, free will, and unabridged freedom in our most natural state. Our intelligence produces a clear understanding that we must come together in agreement on some fundamental ground rules so that we don't waste away all of our time of earth clubbing each other over the head. That is all our laws are.
We are defenseless from and can not control ourselves around those evil self-firing guns.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95
Of course we all have a right to self-defense. What offenses do we have a right to? Murder? No? OK, what about the most deadly and widely used tool of murder? A tool that serves no other purpose.
Last edited by CaseyB; 02-23-2012 at 04:54 AM..
Reason: rude
OK, what about the most deadly and widely used tool of murder? A tool that serves no other purpose.
routinely overlook the single most beneficial use for a gun: Deterring crime.
For every person killed by someone with a gun, there are a hundred people who started to commit a crime, only to quickly change their mind when the victim shows a gun, or even mentions that he has one. Only on rare occasions does the victim actually fire the gun, or even point it at the perp. And of the few times he fires it, most are shots fired into the air as a warning. Even fewer actually are fired AT the perp, and most of those miss.
But in literally millions of cases, a gun owned by a potential crime victim, has stopped commission of the crime, causing the perp to either run off or surrender.
And how do we count the number of times some slimeball considered robbing this house or that little old lady, only to decide not even to go near them because they might have a gun? Impossible to say, though those should surely count as crimes deterred by guns.
"A tool that serves no other purpose than to murder" is one of the most laughable falsehoods told by the hysterical gun-grabbers, out of a whole litany of zany fibs they keep coming up with.
Last edited by CaseyB; 02-23-2012 at 06:56 AM..
Reason: name calling
But in literally millions of cases, a gun owned by a potential crime victim, has stopped commission of the crime, causing the perp to either run off or surrender.
What's the exact number, what is your source, I'd like to see it.
Norway has a much lower crime rate than ours. You know as well as I that one tragedy does not provide data from which to make policy....and no one said or implied that any law can ever stop all criminal activity.
Your "Creator" has nothing to do with this discussion. Or are you suggesting that "non-believers" shouldn't even have a voice?
Human beings are born with independent minds, free will, and unabridged freedom in our most natural state. Our intelligence produces a clear understanding that we must come together in agreement on some fundamental ground rules so that we don't waste away all of our time of earth clubbing each other over the head. That is all our laws are.
Of course we all have a right to self-defense. What offenses do we have a right to? Murder? No? OK, what about the most deadly and widely used tool of murder? A tool that serves no other purpose.
You probably already knew this, but I didn't. Your "Creator" reference prompted me to do a quick Google search and I stumbled upon this page....
If this info is accurate, there are 8 states that have specific wording in their Constitutions denying public office to anyone who denies the being of God - or other words to that effect.
Fascinating. I learn many new things each day and it becomes clearer by the day that we are anything but United States.
Pounding your chest and making claims about how you would love the opportunity to confront a violent thug is a tell tale sign, yes??
1. I don't pound on my chest, especially since one of my hands is broken.
2. I have confronted a violent thug on several occasions, on one, he spent 10 years in a Gastonia prison. The second person was hauled away by Virginia Beach police.
Unlike some, I don't fear violence. I look forward to the time where I am instrumental in sending another useless piece of human garbage to that big waste disposal called a jail.
As I'm sure you know, the precise meaning and intent of the 2nd amendment has been debated for almost as long as the Bill of Rights has been in place.
Most, perhaps all, of the remaining amendments are less specific and principally based, so they are timeless. The 2nd is not, and badly needs clarification and update for the times we live in. There is no way on earth that a thinking human being would conclude in 2012 that the people are best served by allowing any and every citizen who wants one to be running around with a gun.
This is not a Republican/Democrat or Conservative/Liberal struggle. More and more of us across the political spectrum are tired of the carnage and the sheer lunacy of the mass distribution of deadly weapons throughout society.
I said it before and I'll say it again. Gun zealotry in today's urbanized civilization is an extremist position and those who cling to it are going to be increasingly marginalized.
Those who cannot - no, will not - see that their own 2nd amendment fervor is the reason they expect a boogieman around every corner need the guidance of clearer heads.
It's no longer 1776 and we're fresh out of new worlds to colonize, carving out our own custom-tailored social structure. We must tailor public policy to that which we have today and guns no longer have any sensible place at the table. The struggle we are in is a struggle of ideas and it is ideas by which the battle will be won or lost.
This is a little off. In the first place, the 2nd Amendment had nothing to do with having "new worlds to conquer." It was clearly intended to protect the governed from tyranny. Put another way, to protect colonized from colonizer.
There was really not much scholarship on the 2nd Amendment until the 1980's, when that changed and constitutional scholars like Sanford Levinson took up the issue with his landmark piece 'The embarrassing Second Amendment.' The Embarrassing Second Amendment
In 1999 Harvard constitutional law prof Laurence Tribe revised his widely-used textbook to reflect new scholarship reflecting that the 2nd Amendment was about an individual right.
Arguing gun control is one thing. I think it's a losing argument, but still recognize that there is a case to be made either way. Arguing whether the Second Amendment entails an individual right to keep and bear arms isn't even a debate. The scholarship is in, and the SCOTUS has ruled accordingly, despit efforts from the left to ***** the deal.
Hysterics like CrownVic95 routinely overlook the single most beneficial use for a gun: Deterring crime.
For every person killed by someone with a gun, there are a hundred people who started to commit a crime, only to quickly change their mind when the victim shows a gun, or even mentions that he has one. Only on rare occasions does the victim actually fire the gun, or even point it at the perp. And of the few times he fires it, most are shots fired into the air as a warning. Even fewer actually are fired AT the perp, and most of those miss.
But in literally millions of cases, a gun owned by a potential crime victim, has stopped commission of the crime, causing the perp to either run off or surrender.
And how do we count the number of times some slimeball considered robbing this house or that little old lady, only to decide not even to go near them because they might have a gun? Impossible to say, though those should surely count as crimes deterred by guns.
"A tool that serves no other purpose than to murder" is one of the most laughable falsehoods told by the hysterical gun-grabbers, out of a whole litany of zany fibs they keep coming up with.
What's the exact number, what is your source, I'd like to see it.
A study done by the U.S. Dept. of Justice in 1997, under Atty Gen. Janet Reno in the administration of Bill Clinton.
They conducted a survey called the National Survey of Private Ownership of Firearms (NSPOF). They concluded that 3.1 million times in one year, private citizens had used firearms to ward off a crime.
The Justice Dept.'s figure turned out to be slightly higher than that from a separate study done by Florida State professors Gary Kleck and Mark Gertz, who arrived at a figure of 2.5 million uses of firearms in one year to deter crimes.
Guns are used FAR more frequently, by a couple orders of magnitude, to deter crimes than to kill people. And of the people killed, a large percentage of them are criminals killed while committing crimes, by someone (police or civilian) defending themselves.
1. I don't pound on my chest, especially since one of my hands is broken.
2. I have confronted a violent thug on several occasions, on one, he spent 10 years in a Gastonia prison. The second person was hauled away by Virginia Beach police.
Unlike some, I don't fear violence. I look forward to the time where I am instrumental in sending another useless piece of human garbage to that big waste disposal called a jail.
You would be correct. In the REAL world, I don't know anyone male or female that carries that would hesitate pulling that trigger. Then again, I'm around gun show people and people who practice a lot. The one sitting in the drawer untouched for the last 20 doesn't send the same message.
Last edited by Little-Acorn; 02-22-2012 at 06:25 PM..
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