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Old 03-16-2012, 04:47 AM
 
24,488 posts, read 41,154,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof View Post
Bingo!

The main recipient class is stock investors and bond holders. They get their money from other people's work, they don't themselves work. They do provide a needed way for businesses or govts to expand, but still by and large the wealthy are the recipient class. Generally speaking, they don't work hard and save their pennies to get wealthy, but are born into it.

What we need to do is shift some of the burden from middle and low income workers, and place it where it belongs - the idle but healthy recipient class (as opposed to idle but disabled "welfare" cases, who use fewer resources) but it's hard to say exactly how. Perhaps a larger tax on unearned income would work, especially if given to fund necessary social programs such as universal health care, and also infrastructure improvements. Also we could look to Australia for guidance on increasing the minimum wage to a living wage ..... after all, their economy with its higher wages is booming.
It's a full circle. People work, make money, then buy stocks. They're all the same people. The investors also take on risk in order to make money. Workers don't take on any risk and have guaranteed returns. Work X amount of hours, you're guaranteed X amount of money.
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Old 03-16-2012, 04:47 AM
 
20,948 posts, read 19,060,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzards27 View Post
You're distorting reality.
Just answer the question.

What is the responsibility of the recipient class?
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Old 03-16-2012, 04:49 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmjv View Post
It's also the myth that businesses are the only ones that create jobs. They create the initial jobs, like when a guy opens a small general store and hires a cashier. But then when business is booming and he decides to expand and open more stores the reason business is booming is because the employees are doing a good job and customers are buying stuff
Noted.

A great business reflects the personality of the owner.
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Old 03-16-2012, 04:49 AM
 
24,488 posts, read 41,154,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmjv View Post
Employees provide labor. Customers provide money. Business owners receive the benefits
So it went over your head as well? Or are you supporting my point?
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Old 03-16-2012, 04:52 AM
 
24,488 posts, read 41,154,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 73-79 ford fan View Post
The members of the recipient class being Citigroup, Morgan Stanley, Merrill Lynch, Bear Stearns, Bank of America, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan and several others including many foreign banks adding up to a incredible 29 trillion in banker bailouts corporate welfare since the big financial terror attacks in 2008.
A loan is not welfare. You can call it financial aid in the form of a loan... but it's certainly not welfare. Welfare is when people get money for nothing.

On top of all this, the bailout was financially beneficial for you and I. Why would you complain about it?
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Old 03-16-2012, 05:03 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzards27 View Post
Where is "infrastructure" listed as one of these 18 "enumerated powers"?

Still dodging that pesky welfare clause, aren't you? Darn shame that constitution says that congress SHALL (fyi, that means it is mandatory) provide for the general welfare.... Sucks to be on the minority opinion doesn't it?

Betcha one of those 18 powers is to tax....
Of course taxation is constitutional.

The government, however, is limited to spending.

Infrastructure is for "the general welfare".

Welfare, as we know it today, is not. Google "meaning of the general welfare...it includes infrastructure, but not talking from one citizen to give to another individual.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
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Old 03-16-2012, 05:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
Exactly. Social Security has lasted this long without yet imploding, funded by low-wage workers who paid in for decades without getting back a dime.
That's a great argument for eliminating SS.
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Old 03-16-2012, 05:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt1984 View Post
So you are saying you have never received anything from anyone else? So clueless.
No, I haven't.

Other than gifts from friends and family on holidays and birthdays.

Nothing from the government....to the contrary, I've paid many thousands of dollars into the government.
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Old 03-16-2012, 05:13 AM
 
20,948 posts, read 19,060,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke_Jaguar4 View Post
If your breakfast didn't kill you because it had to pass government food inspection, then you are a recipient.
If your health is not degraded from lead and pollutants in the air thanks to government regulations, then you are a recipient.
If your children didn't die from diarrhea because they drink clean water from public utilities, then you are a recipient.
If you got to work this morning using a public roadway, then you are a recipient.
If your car didn't kill or maim you thanks to government safety standards, then you are a recipient.
If your boss has to give you safety equipment, regular breaks, and reasonable compensation due to labor laws, then you are a recipient.
If you can transact business in the world's most reliable and trusted currency, the dollar, then you are a recipient.
If your bank can't fold in the middle of the night and take all your savings due to banking laws, then you are a recipient.
If you or your children have ever attended a public school or college, then you are a recipient.
If you have ever used emergency paramedic, fire, or police services, then you are a recipient.
If you or your parents use Medicare to access medical treatment, then you are a recipient.

If you take everything I mentioned above for granted and whine about how unfair your tax burden is, then you are an ungrateful cheapskate.
I will destroy this ridiculousness when I have more time.
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Old 03-16-2012, 05:15 AM
 
20,948 posts, read 19,060,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof View Post
It's wise to spend a little on "these people's" kids, because without at least the basics of good nutrition, clothing, and shelter, children can suffer psychological and even physiological damage that will later make it more likely that they will be a burden on society - for example the ultimate burden is needing to imprison them if they become criminals. I don't know whether the tax credits in particular are a good way to deal with the problem, but you do have to spend a little to save a lot later when the kids are grown.

That's called "wisdom", and such wise thinking is the basis for most of society's social programs and safety nets. It's one reason why socialized and well-regulated capitalist nations have the highest standards of living in the world, much more so than purely laissez-faire capitalist nations.
People are responsible for their own children, right?

Who is more responsible for YOUR children? You or me?
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