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It is not up to us to dispute a bogus claim. It is up to birthers to prove what they believe and so far after 3 years they have yet to prove what they believe.
It is one thing to blindly accept everything that your hero (boss?) tells you without questioning any of it and quite another to look at everything with a critical eye. There are few absolutes in life but accepting what is seen in the political arena as one of them is disingenuous.
My brains are just fine, thank you, and they are above my shoulders not stuck up my azz, like some people on this forum.
Obama is neither hero, nor boss.
Critical evaluation would require you to consider that the people claiming the birth certificate is a forgery have never actually seen or handled the birth certificate. They aren't claiming that the birth certificate is a fraud. They are claiming that the image downloaded to the internet is a fraud. It's an internet image! A picture of a birth certificate. What "expert" would declare a document to be a forgery without actually examining the document? Everyone who has handled the document has attested to its authenticity, including Republicans. The State of Hawaii has affirmed, repeatedly, the one piece of information a birth certificate asserts, where and when someone was born. When the State says someone was born in the state on a certain date, then you don't need a birth certificate. Because that's the whole, entire point of a birth certificate. All a birth certificate is is a paper that says where and on what date you were born, and that if you are challenged, the state will back up that paper. President Obama's birth certificate has been backed up by the state. There is zero basis for arguing that the birth certificate is bogus. ZERO. Because the State of Hawaii has publicly affirmed it. All the discussion of document imaging software is smoke and mirrors. It's irrelevant. That's critical evaluation.
Critical evaluation does not require you to listen to every nut who has an opinion on a topic. Critical evaluation requires you to identify the key issue, and to decide who the authority is on the key issue, then to listen and hear what the authority says.
The key issue of the birth certificate: Was President Obama born in Hawaii in 1961?
The authority on the key issue: The State of Hawaii
What does the authority say? That President Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961.
End of critical evaluation.
Last edited by DC at the Ridge; 04-10-2012 at 08:57 AM..
Reason: oops
If you believe he was born in Hawaii, what would be the point of a forged birth certificate?
That's easy--to show proof to the "birthers" that he was born in Hawaii and to provide ammunition to his supporters to quell the arguments of said "birthers". (His supporters didn't need proof. They already believed.)
I am an observer only. I neither believe nor disbelieve. It is important to me only as an issue that is still alive. I accept that he was legally elected to the office he holds. I don't accept that he is taking the country in the right direction--but that's another thread.
That's easy--to show proof to the "birthers" that he was born in Hawaii and to provide ammunition to his supporters to quell the arguments of said "birthers". (They didn't need proof. They already believed.)
I am an observer only. I neither believe nor disbelieve. It is important to me only an issue that is still alive. I accept that he was legally elected to the office he holds. I don't accept that he is taking the country in the right direction--but that's another thread.
The "birthers" have already established that there is no proof that they will accept. You should have observed that already. SityData states it explicitly.
It is one thing to blindly accept everything that your hero (boss?) tells you without questioning any of it and quite another to look at everything with a critical eye. There are few absolutes in life but accepting what is seen in the political arena as one of them is disingenuous.
If you arent going to blindly accept everything any one tells you then you've got another 350 million birth certificates to analyze..
Critical evaluation would require you to consider that the people claiming the birth certificate is a forgery have never actually seen or handled the birth certificate. They aren't claiming that the birth certificate is a fraud. They are claiming that the image downloaded to the internet is a fraud. It's an internet image! A picture of a birth certificate. What "expert" would declare a document to be a forgery without actually examining the document? Everyone who has handled the document has attested to its authenticity, including Republicans. The State of Hawaii has affirmed, repeatedly, the one piece of information a birth certificate asserts, where and when someone was born. When the State says someone was born in the state on a certain date, then you don't need a birth certificate. Because that's the whole, entire point of a birth certificate. All a birth certificate is is a paper that says where and on what date you were born, and that if you are challenged, the state will back up that paper. President Obama's birth certificate has been backed up by the state. There is zero basis for arguing that the birth certificate is bogus. ZERO. Because the State of Hawaii has publicly affirmed it. All the discussion of document imaging software is smoke and mirrors. It's irrelevant. That's critical evaluation.
Critical evaluation does not require you to listen to every nut who has an opinion on a topic. Critical evaluation requires you to identify the key issue, and to decide who the authority is on the key issue, then to listen and hear what the authority says.
The key issue of the birth certificate: Was President Obama born in Hawaii in 1961?
The authority on the key issue: The State of Hawaii
What does the authority say? That President Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961.
End of critical evaluation.
"Critical evaluation" is subjective. The actual document that Obama released has, to my knowledge, NOT been released to impartial forensic forgery experts for a critical examination. All that has been released is the copy posted to the internet.
If you arent going to blindly accept everything any one tells you then you've got another 350 million birth certificates to analyze..
Why should anyone care about yours, or anyone else's, birth certificate? As far as I know, you haven't had cause to submit yours to prove you were even born.
And, I guess, the idiot birthers actually believe that the state of Hawaii just sit silently by while the birth certificate is produced....instead of saying; "No, we did not give him that birth certificate. That is a forgery because we didn't have a birth certificate to give him?"
Wonder why these marginal people are not screaming for Romney to produce his tax reports instead of still calling for a birth certificate that has already been long ago produced.
The "birthers" have already established that there is no proof that they will accept. You should have observed that already. SityData states it explicitly.
I can't speak for any of them--all I can say is that, to my knowledge, the actual document that was reproduced to the internet has not been examined by any impartial party. When the stakes are as high as they are in this game, NOTHING can be ruled out.
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