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Yep. The one building and college town you live in represents all youth on the Earth today, because obviously everyone under 25 lives that exact lifestyle, right down to the bolted fruit.
What I described was my own personal experience, and not simply a personal opinion or a perception. I also understand that such experience does not, in and of itself, represent a concrete and accurate picture of a broader reality outside of that experience. Without any additional evidence, this could be isolated, as you are insinuating. However, there is a great deal of additional evidence that suggests that my personal experience is not an isolated one, in spite of your suggestion which is presented WITHOUT evidence. And you tend to do a lot of that type of thing when responding to many of my posts. You offer your "opinion" without really presenting anything of substance, as if your opinion alone holds greater weight.
Furthermore, I would have expected that the educated among us would have gathered a better understanding of what I was actually suggesting from the clue I gave when stating that according to my experience, not all of the college students behaved in these less undesirable ways .... which clearly indicates that I was not claiming a universal or absolute condition exists across the board .... did you miss that part?
Now just within my personal example ... two different subsets existed ... two different Universities ... two different demographics .... and other people's assessment of similar events ... not just my own. I didn't go into great detail other than the part about the student housing superintendent's experience with 5 different properties, and how that mirrored my own experience on the property I resided. But that itself shows that my experience was not "isolated". And unless you can show me evidence that indicates how "unique" Austin Texas is compared to other University towns in America, we can assume you're perceptions are the one's skewed.
Austin is actually quite an upscale city, and the students I described not representative of the underprivileged ... yet I gather that you're claiming that somehow, Austin is just one of those "one off" examples that is not representative of the bigger picture?
What I described was my own personal experience, and not simply a personal opinion or a perception. I also understand that such experience does not, in and of itself, represent a concrete and accurate picture of a broader reality outside of that experience. Without any additional evidence, this could be isolated, as you are insinuating. However, there is a great deal of additional evidence that suggests that my personal experience is not an isolated one, in spite of your suggestion which is presented WITHOUT evidence. And you tend to do a lot of that type of thing when responding to many of my posts. You offer your "opinion" without really presenting anything of substance, as if your opinion alone holds greater weight.
Furthermore, I would have expected that the educated among us would have gathered a better understanding of what I was actually suggesting from the clue I gave when stating that according to my experience, not all of the college students behaved in these less undesirable ways .... which clearly indicates that I was not claiming a universal or absolute condition exists across the board .... did you miss that part?
Now just within my personal example ... two different subsets existed ... two different Universities ... two different demographics .... and other people's assessment of similar events ... not just my own. I didn't go into great detail other than the part about the student housing superintendent's experience with 5 different properties, and how that mirrored my own experience on the property I resided. But that itself shows that my experience was not "isolated". And unless you can show me evidence that indicates how "unique" Austin Texas is compared to other University towns in America, we can assume you're perceptions are the one's skewed.
Austin is actually quite an upscale city, and the students I described not representative of the underprivileged ... yet I gather that you're claiming that somehow, Austin is just one of those "one off" examples that is not representative of the bigger picture?
Do enlighten us with your evidence of this.
I'd say the following quote from your bloated rant was pretty much a condemnation of higher education in general:
Quote:
But we need to pull our heads out of the sand here with this nonsense about college educations providing anything other than what they are actually providing, which is another obnoxiously overpriced revenue stream for the banks and universities who are milking us dry, charging outrageous sums for the privilege of indoctrinating another generation of our unsuspecting youth with false leftist ideological mumbo jumbo that have these kids believing that up is actually down.
And it clearly identifies where you place on the spectrum of higher order thinking skills.
Pssst .... don't tell anyone ..... but I think it has something to do with what they are teaching .. and the product of that teaching which churns out people who think that anyone that doesn't agree with their upside down, twisted world view is automatically a "Right Wing Nut Job" ... a highly technical term which is probably now under consideration for being included in the next release of the DSM.
30 or 40 years ago, a college education provided more value, and really was an extension of higher learning. Today, not so much .... it's more like a puppy mill, were volume represents the key component. After 12 years of psychological manipulation and dumbing down, those last four years in college are now used to restore marginal functionality, without undoing all of the previous years accomplishments.
I'd say the following quote from your bloated rant was pretty much a condemnation of higher education in general:
And it clearly identifies where you place on the spectrum of higher order thinking skills.
Yes it does ... I'm glad you agree.
We now produce business professionals who cannot run a business ... economists who know nothing of economics .... medical professionals who know nothing about health ... and political scientists who haven't a clue about how the world actually works, and lawyers who know nothing about law. That would be bad enough except for the fact that they all graduate believing themselves to be experts in their fields, and consequently, their "learning" stops.
We now produce business professionals who cannot run a business ... economists who know nothing of economics .... medical professionals who know nothing about health ... and political scientists who haven't a clue about how the world actually works, and lawyers who know nothing about law. That would be bad enough except for the fact that they all graduate believing themselves to be experts in their fields, and consequently, their "learning" stops.
That's the scary part.
So your alternative? Should we make people doctors right of high school? Consider someone a lawyer who never went to law school?
As in everything, there are good professionals and ones that are not so good. Blaming the fact that someone went to law school for a bad lawyer is painting with a broad brush. I'd also contend that there is no practicing lawyer or medical professional who "know nothing" about law or health, respectively.
Call me over cautious but I wouldn't use a GP who didn't have educational credentials.
This entire thread is nothing but an exercise for anti-intellectuals to voice their frustration, whether justified or not.
Does anyone want a doctor doing surgery on them that didn't go to university?
How about nuclear scientists who didn't get a degree?
Anyone want to drive over a bridge designed by the neighborhood blacksmith who never went to college?
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This thread conflates education and intelligence. The two are not mutually inclusive. However, rigorous curriculum provided by a college education is necessary for the rudimentary understanding in most fields. You also get a strong set of foundational skills (how to read, how to write, how to analyze) and a diversity of courses to provide context and perspective (history, language, math/science, art, etc.) to supplement your particular major.
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Also note that no college education doesn't preclude one from achieving success, being happy or making money.
I'd say it's less of a fear, and more of a disdain for it.
I mean, the whole point of this thread wasn't to recognize the value of real world experience, it was to say that education is overrated. (And to say that stinky liberals hate real world experience and people who didn't go to college)
I had a pretty successful career in Corporate America without having a college degree. My real world experience served me well, and I worked for an employer that prioritized employee development and training, for which I am extremely grateful. Their training and experience made me a coveted employee in my field, and I was never hurting for work. There were many opportunities , however, for advancement (internal and external), that I missed out on because I did not have a college degree. I'm talking being one of the last 2-3 candidates and getting the feedback that the other guy and I were neck and neck, and him having a degree made the difference.
Do I regret not seeking a degree? No. I had a good career. I was able to get financially well off enough that now I am able to work for myself doing something I love to do outside of corporate America. (And I still get calls from recruiters, even after being out of the business for 2 years)
Does my wife regret persevering in her education until she got a PHD? Hell no. She has a fantastic job (Director of executive communications for a fortune 100 company) because of her education and her experiences, and even now, is seeking an MBA (paid for by the company) to supplement that.
The idiocy behind the original premise of this thread is that if someone undervalues real world experience, they are overvaluing higher education. I'd say only a complete idiot would undervalue either. Everyone's life, career path, level of (and definition of) success is different.
I'm not sure why you would "LMAO@them"? You sound resentful of people who were able to obtain a higher education degree. Are you implying that without a degree they would be employed with a good paying job? I'm not clear as to why anyone would find enjoyment in another person's hard knocks.
The truth is that nobody is going to get far in life without some type of higher education, it doesn't have to be "college". It can be technical school, trade school, cosmetology school, whatever.
he posts that on every other thread he has no actual rebuttal for.
I know PhD's in the sciences, who dont look down on technical schools, or people who have attended there before attending grad school.
They also however, would not vote for a dolt like rick perry, or palin.
I'd say it's less of a fear, and more of a disdain for it.
I mean, the whole point of this thread wasn't to recognize the value of real world experience, it was to say that education is overrated. (And to say that stinky liberals hate real world experience and people who didn't go to college)
I had a pretty successful career in Corporate America without having a college degree. My real world experience served me well, and I worked for an employer that prioritized employee development and training, for which I am extremely grateful. Their training and experience made me a coveted employee in my field, and I was never hurting for work. There were many opportunities , however, for advancement (internal and external), that I missed out on because I did not have a college degree. I'm talking being one of the last 2-3 candidates and getting the feedback that the other guy and I were neck and neck, and him having a degree made the difference.
Do I regret not seeking a degree? No. I had a good career. I was able to get financially well off enough that now I am able to work for myself doing something I love to do outside of corporate America. (And I still get calls from recruiters, even after being out of the business for 2 years)
Does my wife regret persevering in her education until she got a PHD? Hell no. She has a fantastic job (Director of executive communications for a fortune 100 company) because of her education and her experiences, and even now, is seeking an MBA (paid for by the company) to supplement that.
The idiocy behind the original premise of this thread is that if someone undervalues real world experience, they are overvaluing higher education. I'd say only a complete idiot would undervalue either. Everyone's life, career path, level of (and definition of) success is different.
I think you have allowed some relative truths to taint your conclusions about reality.
There has definitely been a long standing practice of "overvaluing" a college degree in the professional environment, which indeed placed style over substance. College, in it's practical usefulness was geared toward providing a more accurate assessment of a person's aptitude, while offering limited value in practical, immediately applicable skills. Experience has always been responsible for building an effective structure. But given the much smaller percentage of the general population having a degree 40 years ago, the absence of a degree was not prohibitive of entry into, or the achievement of great success in many professions. Today, that percentage has grown to the extent that it has transformed the degree into a prerequisite rather than just an advantage. That dilutes the value of both the degree itself, as well as the people without them, and no longer represents the proverbial "glass ceiling", but is now an impenetrable wall. And this is the least of the negative consequences.
The greater harm comes from the lowering of standards that have occurred to accommodate that increase in bodies, further diluting the tangible value of those degrees in any particular discipline, even to the extent that a newer arbitrary obstacle has been created, with "community college" now becoming a negative in comparison to the prestige of the University, relegating it to the status of a "used car" for those not able to afford a new one. This has turned education into an assembly line product where profit takes precedence over content and value.
The reality is, degrees have become a huge money making business, while the true purpose of higher education has been totally abandoned ... and the many tens of thousands graduating each year are being sold a bill of goods regarding their realistic employment prospects, along with their ability to pay back the huge debts being incurred.
Just recently there was a debate about the bleak outlook on employment, using McDonald's as an example. According to the report, McDonald's has 100 applicants for every job opening, with 30% of them having college degrees. Do you really think those college graduates spent 4 years in school, and assumed that dept in order to get a job flipping burgers? Really? And what of the poor slobs that are historically the ones manning the burger station to do when they are being pushed aside for those with a college degree? What hope do they have? What this represents is the creation of a new level of class warfare never seen before.
Just as obvious (to anyone actually paying attention) is that as the numbers of college graduates who are unable to find employment in their chosen fields of study continues to expand, the majority will have to accept jobs unrelated to their education, making that education worthless from any practical point of measure, except of course to the banks and institutions of higher learning that are reaping the overvalued profits.
Now, if that is not enough to convince you that there is a major problem, I doubt you'll understand the greater, long term impact of churning out masses of individuals, loaded with debt, who's education cannot be put to practical use in the general economy.
Suffice it to say that a large percentage of "students" are effectively attending "Clown School" in order to get a job flipping burgers at McDonald's, and their prospects for advancement aren't too great since Ronald already has their job. Get it?
Or will you too claim that I'm just a "bitter old man" for pointing out these realities? What is it today that has so many convinced that the "truth" is a dirty word? Worse yet, what is it about people today who seem to enjoy being lied to, while attacking anyone who tells them the truth?
I think you have allowed some relative truths to taint your conclusions about reality.
There has definitely been a long standing practice of "overvaluing" a college degree in the professional environment, which indeed placed style over substance. College, in it's practical usefulness was geared toward providing a more accurate assessment of a person's aptitude, while offering limited value in practical, immediately applicable skills. Experience has always been responsible for building an effective structure. But given the much smaller percentage of the general population having a degree 40 years ago, the absence of a degree was not prohibitive of entry into, or the achievement of great success in many professions. Today, that percentage has grown to the extent that it has transformed the degree into a prerequisite rather than just an advantage. That dilutes the value of both the degree itself, as well as the people without them, and no longer represents the proverbial "glass ceiling", but is now an impenetrable wall. And this is the least of the negative consequences.
The greater harm comes from the lowering of standards that have occurred to accommodate that increase in bodies, further diluting the tangible value of those degrees in any particular discipline, even to the extent that a newer arbitrary obstacle has been created, with "community college" now becoming a negative in comparison to the prestige of the University, relegating it to the status of a "used car" for those not able to afford a new one. This has turned education into an assembly line product where profit takes precedence over content and value.
The reality is, degrees have become a huge money making business, while the true purpose of higher education has been totally abandoned ... and the many tens of thousands graduating each year are being sold a bill of goods regarding their realistic employment prospects, along with their ability to pay back the huge debts being incurred.
Just recently there was a debate about the bleak outlook on employment, using McDonald's as an example. According to the report, McDonald's has 100 applicants for every job opening, with 30% of them having college degrees. Do you really think those college graduates spent 4 years in school, and assumed that dept in order to get a job flipping burgers? Really? And what of the poor slobs that are historically the ones manning the burger station to do when they are being pushed aside for those with a college degree? What hope do they have? What this represents is the creation of a new level of class warfare never seen before.
Just as obvious (to anyone actually paying attention) is that as the numbers of college graduates who are unable to find employment in their chosen fields of study continues to expand, the majority will have to accept jobs unrelated to their education, making that education worthless from any practical point of measure, except of course to the banks and institutions of higher learning that are reaping the overvalued profits.
Now, if that is not enough to convince you that there is a major problem, I doubt you'll understand the greater, long term impact of churning out masses of individuals, loaded with debt, who's education cannot be put to practical use in the general economy.
Suffice it to say that a large percentage of "students" are effectively attending "Clown School" in order to get a job flipping burgers at McDonald's, and their prospects for advancement aren't too great since Ronald already has their job. Get it?
Or will you too claim that I'm just a "bitter old man" for pointing out these realities? What is it today that has so many convinced that the "truth" is a dirty word? Worse yet, what is it about people today who seem to enjoy being lied to, while attacking anyone who tells them the truth?
Did you read my post? For your benefit, I will repeat the last part:
Quote:
Originally Posted by quigboto
The idiocy behind the original premise of this thread is that if someone undervalues real world experience, they are overvaluing higher education. I'd say only a complete idiot would undervalue either. Everyone's life, career path, level of (and definition of) success is different.
Yeah, tell my wife that her education is overvalued. Or my heart surgeon. Your perception of reality is your own. If you think that makes you sound like a bitter old man, then you have to ask yourself why that is. I could care less, as your perception does not affect me in the least. My reality is pretty awesome thanks to real world experience and education, and wouldn't be so awesome without both.
Sorry if things didn't work out as well for you, but like I said
Quote:
Originally Posted by quigboto
Everyone's life, career path, level of (and definition of) success is different.
Cheers!
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