Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Being educated is a byproduct of a number of factors including work and life experiences, social interactions, and emotional intelligence..basically none of which college can teach you. Some of my most successful friends worth millions now didn't even go to college, and some that did dropped out after a couple years to start their own gigs. Know some folks with PHds now working the barista at Starbucks, probably even a few on here complaining about how life isn't fair blaming someone else
Your work ethic , your ability to self teach, and how you manage your time and interact with others are all far more critical to ones success in life than getting a diploma, contrived from professors ..many of whom have probably never gotten their hands dirty in the real world.
Why are you conflating being educated and employment?
So your alternative? Should we make people doctors right of high school? Consider someone a lawyer who never went to law school?
As in everything, there are good professionals and ones that are not so good. Blaming the fact that someone went to law school for a bad lawyer is painting with a broad brush. I'd also contend that there is no practicing lawyer or medical professional who "know nothing" about law or health, respectively.
Call me over cautious but I wouldn't use a GP who didn't have educational credentials.
This entire thread is nothing but an exercise for anti-intellectuals to voice their frustration, whether justified or not.
You think this represents an intellectual response? You think that the only alternative to what I've described as incompetent education is no education at all? YOU are precisely the type I am referring to! Self anointed intellectuals who think 4 years of studying BS actually makes them smarter. It is quite the reverse, I assure you.
Let me explain the process of education in it's current form. It's programming and memorization. I tell you the sky is green, and when you are tested, if you say it's blue, you fail. But if you say it's green, you graduate. If you actually believe it is green, you graduate with honors. Then you take that pigskin and show everyone how smart you are, and that you were first in the class! And everyone from your class ill pat each other on the back and tell each other how collectively brilliant they are ... and laugh at all of those "anti-intellectuals" who still think the sky is blue.
Or, you could dig a little deeper here and consider that just like the government ... and the financial institutions ... and the medical establishment ... education has also been corrupted and needs a top down overhaul.
You might take a moment to consider that our economy is in shambles ... our state of health is deplorable ... our politics destructive ... and lawlessness now rules .....
Then ask yourself where did all of that come from? Plumbers? Ditch diggers? Guys riding on the back of garbage trucks? Or is it a product of highly educated nincompoops who in spite of the disastrous results, still think themselves geniuses?
Did I mention elementary math seems to be a problem too? Like 2+2?
Why are you conflating being educated and employment?
The better question is why would you ask such a ridiculous question? Are you insinuating that there hasn't been a long standing "conflating" of that nature?
The most recent test of the collective intelligence of the American public regarding economics, medicine and law were all wrapped up in the debate over ObamaCare.
Two things I would point out ...
1) the overwhelming majority of the liberal intelligentsia are enthusiastically in favor of it
2) No plan government has produced in recent history (and this is indeed a mouthful) shows a more disastrously poor grasp of what constitutes good economics, good health, or good law. Strike one, Strike Two, Strike Three .... you're geniuses?
The better question is why would you ask such a ridiculous question? Are you insinuating that there hasn't been a long standing "conflating" of that nature?
Why do you have to be so nasty?
And they're not the same thing. I know a few baristas who are more educated and more intelligent than some wealthy investment bankers I know. One of my best friends, after completing his Fulbright scholarship, got his Ph.D. in chemistry. He's now an elementary school teacher, loves it, and plans to do if for the rest of his life. Education is about personal fulfillment (adult non-trade school education that is). It's not about monetary positioning or climbing the employment ladder.
Last edited by hammertime33; 07-05-2012 at 04:37 PM..
We now produce business professionals who cannot run a business ... economists who know nothing of economics .... medical professionals who know nothing about health ... and political scientists who haven't a clue about how the world actually works, and lawyers who know nothing about law. That would be bad enough except for the fact that they all graduate believing themselves to be experts in their fields, and consequently, their "learning" stops.
I just think it is funny that some people feel the need to bash other people on their accomplishments. That show real character right there. Threads like this that attempt to bash college graduates are just sad. Also using anecdotal stories and natural Geniuses (Someone even mentioned the Movie Good Will Hunting) as the norm is just foolish at best. I mean really guys, what is wrong with going to college and getting an education? Statistically, it is the smartest choice to make in this day and age if you are to succeed.
Example:
Go to school and get a Degree in Engineering.
Time: 4 years
Outcome: Getting a Job in Said Engineering discipline.
Starting Pay: 50K and up.
Non college Alternative: Sh*t if I know.
What is the cost of that degree and how long will it take to pay off the student loan? I'm not trying to knock higher education, but it is part of the whole picture and too many people don't consider that before enrolling.
There are alternatives. College is one way, but not the only way.
You're describing elementary school, not college. Memorization is the lowest form of learning, but it's a necessary step in the educational process. First, you have the learn the vocabulary. Memorize the order of the planets. Memorize your multiplication tables. This is elementary school stuff.
By the time you get to high school, you're expected to exhibit understanding and the ability to apply your knowledge to different situations. If you were throwing spitballs in the back of class, you might have missed this.
College teaches you higher order learning skills. Now that you know this, how would you solve this? Analyze this situation. Synthesize this knowledge into a critical writing piece. Evaluate this new information.
If you never got beyond the memorization stage, I do feel sorry for you. If that's what you think is going on in a college classroom, you haven't been in one in a while.
You will not learn everything you need to know in college, but you'll learn how to learn everything you need to know while you are in college.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
You think this represents an intellectual response? You think that the only alternative to what I've described as incompetent education is no education at all? YOU are precisely the type I am referring to! Self anointed intellectuals who think 4 years of studying BS actually makes them smarter. It is quite the reverse, I assure you.
Let me explain the process of education in it's current form. It's programming and memorization. I tell you the sky is green, and when you are tested, if you say it's blue, you fail. But if you say it's green, you graduate. If you actually believe it is green, you graduate with honors. Then you take that pigskin and show everyone how smart you are, and that you were first in the class! And everyone from your class ill pat each other on the back and tell each other how collectively brilliant they are ... and laugh at all of those "anti-intellectuals" who still think the sky is blue.
Or, you could dig a little deeper here and consider that just like the government ... and the financial institutions ... and the medical establishment ... education has also been corrupted and needs a top down overhaul.
You might take a moment to consider that our economy is in shambles ... our state of health is deplorable ... our politics destructive ... and lawlessness now rules .....
Then ask yourself where did all of that come from? Plumbers? Ditch diggers? Guys riding on the back of garbage trucks? Or is it a product of highly educated nincompoops who in spite of the disastrous results, still think themselves geniuses?
Did I mention elementary math seems to be a problem too? Like 2+2?
College improves discipline? Bwuhahahaha You should take this routine on the "road" .... you'll fill auditoriums with roars of laughter, and make a fortune
I live in a "college town", and I've had the unfortunate experience of watching what used to be a very cool, riverside community turn into a huge college dormitory for kids with obviously wealthy parents. And the feeling I got was .... "this is our future? These are our future leaders? We are doomed as a species if that is the case".
Now I'm an old %&^& ... been around a while ... been around the block, and seen it all. You know what I see? I see young men with beards riding freaking skateboards! My generation stopped riding skateboards when we turned 9 .. and graduated to full size bicycles that were just slightly too large for us, but we managed. I see 20 year olds riding these undersized bikes (which are apparently designed to do everything other than what bikes were originally designed to do) that look like they were built for 8 year olds! When I was 20, my "bike" had a "Harley Davidson" emblem on it, and my "skateboard" was a Chevy that I worked on and repaired myself. Many of these kids can't even figure out they are out of gas when their car doesn't start.
Now, these outward signs of retarded maturity doesn't stop with baby bikes and skateboards ... but also shows up in the inane backward logic which comes with the "entitlement" mentality that driving brand new BMW's until the motor seizes from lack of oil, reinforces. Partying every night till sunrise and consuming alcohol as if it were their last night on earth, doesn't help much .... and their academic strategy seems to consist of trying to figure out how to convince Beth, Suzie and Janice to do that little hot threesome thing again and allow it to be uploaded to YouTube this time. Living in a lakeside community, walking distance from downtown with 50 bars with live music every night, leaving their windows open and air conditioning set at 62, when it's 105 outside all combined together is generating a future member of society that would scare the daylights out of Mad Max. The few hours each day when these kids aren't making neanderthals look like a form of advanced human species, and they actually take time out to sleep, through a few classes, they are then subliminally programmed with leftist/Marxist ideological gobbledygook that dominates and permeates 21st century academia, offered up by bazaar Orwellian type "professors" who themselves have never actually held a real job in their lives. Welcome to the University of Nowhere .... criteria for acceptance? Someone to pay the 30 grand annual tuition ... a pulse ... ability to sign your name .. and a pencil.
A few years ago, I was doing some work at a couple of hi-rise buildings downtown ... modern, art deco like joints, with impressive lobbies, and high end feature apartments. Anywhere in the country, these premium pads would be occupied by executive level professionals with excellent incomes (in NYC, only Millionaires need apply) ... not your average income types ..... but these buildings? They were part of a consortium of "student housing" for the University of Texas. Student housing!!!
Talking with the superintendent .... I asked him how these buildings could possibly be relegated to student housing, and he just laughed and said "because the world we live in now is upside down and totally insane, and apparently there are enough parents out there with more money than brains". And it's so true, .... they are not doing these kids any favors by providing a lifestyle like this that fosters this absurd notion that the world is their oyster, to include someone else to open it for them.
Then, he walked me over to the luxurious lobby area, with leather furniture, attractive art on the walls, and tables with vases of flowers, and so forth ... he said ... try picking up one of those bowls of fruit on the table over there. An odd request it seemed, but I did. I couldn't budge it. That's because it was glued down to the table!! That's right ... every piece of anything in that lobby that was movable was glued or bolted down, because they got tired of replacing all of it twice a week. A bowl of fake fruit? Bowl glued to the table, and the fruit glued to the freaking bowl ... absolutely astounding. He told me all of the five properties this group manages for student housing experiences the same thing ... he said it was literally animal house on steroids .... with their housekeeping budget three times the norm, just to pick up trash in the hallways, trash and puke in the elevators, replacing appliances like refrigerators that have their doors ripped off, and stopped up toilets with all matters of strange items that normal human beings would never even think would go down. This is the reality.
And this may seem like a harsh indictment of our youth ... but I don't really blame them as much as I blame the environment that created them (and not all of the college students behave this way .. there are many conscientious ones who have come from good family backgrounds and are real cool kids who also see how crazy things have gotten).
But we need to pull our heads out of the sand here with this nonsense about college educations providing anything other than what they are actually providing, which is another obnoxiously overpriced revenue stream for the banks and universities who are milking us dry, charging outrageous sums for the privilege of indoctrinating another generation of our unsuspecting youth with false leftist ideological mumbo jumbo that have these kids believing that up is actually down.
A growing number of them (just like the public at large) are becoming better informed and too smart to be bamboozled with this indoctrination posing as education, as they realize that what they are being told doesn't jibe with the reality that they see occurring in the outside world. But too many are still trapped in a perpetual state of a grade school like mentality who see nothing at all wrong with grown men riding skateboards, and are incapable of making such comparisons. But the tide seems to be shifting a bit, and things seem to be moving ina more positive direction, much to the chagrin of the liberal progressives. We can only pray that the pace of that shift accelerates enough to allow sanity to make it to the finish line first.
This is a long rant on the student's maturity, but it says nothing at all about their mental discipline. If they are passing, that discipline is there, even if you think they are acting immature for their age. Maturity and smarts do not go hand in hand, oftentimes.
Skateboards? Why is that such a big deal to you? When I first attended college 50 years ago, the very first skateboard I ever saw in my life was on the college campus.
It was made in one of the Engineering school's workshops. It was just something he made to play around with as a harmless diversion when he wasn't hitting the books. Who knows? Maybe that immature kid went on to be a millionaire skateboard manufacturer- since I never met him, I don't know.
Stuff like stunt bikes and skateboards burn off the nervous energy the young have, and are a damn sight cheaper than a Harley or a Chevy.
Partying, drinking to excess and chasing girls is not restricted to colleges. High school dropouts do more than their share of exactly the same. How many high school dropouts are every going to be major contributors to our society? Be realistic. Many of those kids you are looking down your nose at will find a job a dropout isn't fit to do, settle down, raise a family and pay more taxes than a dropout ever will.
University towns have always had off-campus housing. What's new about that? Do you know whether that luxury hi-rise was actually owned by the University? If the University did buy the building, are you aware of how many DeLuxe hi-rise apartment buildings are offered for sale on the cheap these days? Or do you think students would do better if they were living in dumps?
So what, if some parents decide to send their child to an expensive college? What's it to you? It is their decision, not yours, and you should keep your nose and your opinions out of their business. Sending a kid to college is always a financial sacrifice for almost all families; only the very wealthy are able to provide this with minimal pain. Any college education is an investment in a family's future as much as it is with the child getting the education. Our poor and our immigrants know that fact well.
Our state universities are not bleeding tax payers dry, but our legislators are, by unwilling to provide them with enough funding to keep their enrollment costs low. Any purchase of buildings, furnishings and equipment has to be approved by the state Board of Education, which answer to the state Legislature, so if Texas bought that nice building, your Representative had something to do with it. Obviously, if it is owned by the state, enough people thought it was a good investment.
Failure to fund state schools of higher education will only create a generation of young people who will never be able to hold down the high paying jobs that only higher education provides. America got to reach the top because we were willing from the first to create an educated, literate citizenry. The people who put us at the top of the economic world ladder came from the state colleges our forefathers were wise enough to build, and our future leaders will come from those same institutions if we follow our wise ancestors.
If we choose to abandon those principles, then we'll end up becoming just like Afghanistan, unprepared to compete with the rest of the world, perpetually divided by tribes and religion, and falling behind as the rest of the world takes up the slack we created.
E Pluribus Unum. That motto has worked very well for 250 years, but you are advising we wipe it out for the price of buying another pair of cheap shoes- that price is all the tax your share of contributing to your colleges amounts to yearly.
Last edited by banjomike; 07-05-2012 at 07:05 PM..
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,852 posts, read 10,461,442 times
Reputation: 6670
Could there be a more tragic commentary on the current state of conservatism and the GOP, than these open attacks on education and intellectual achievement... and this from the same party that gave us such famous conservative intellectuals as H.L. Mencken, Robert Taft, Thomas Sowell and William F. Buckley?!
Which ironically brings to mind a quote by another infamous conservative anti-intellectual, Spiro Agnew, that "we have more than our share of the nattering nabobs of negativism!"
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Then you take that pigskin and show everyone how smart you are, and that you were first in the class! And everyone from your class ill pat each other on the back and tell each other how collectively brilliant they are ... and laugh at all of those "anti-intellectuals" who still think the sky is blue.
