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Old 08-15-2012, 08:33 PM
 
Location: In the Redwoods
30,409 posts, read 52,025,350 times
Reputation: 23890

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudegubmintworker View Post
Which most likely translates to they don't give you what you want, ergo, they are treating you like dirt, (rudely, dismissively, whatever).
As a public worker myself, I can attest to that! Sure, sometimes people really aren't treated well, but many of our patrons think a simple "no" (to a question that has no other answer) is somehow a personal attack on them.

Quote:
What's funny is I have worked in customer service for 21 years now....7 years in government. Funny, but I've often been accused of being "rude" because of the look on my face.
Only time I've been accused of rudeness (working in public libraries) was at closing time one night, when I did my usual perimeter check to make sure everyone was out by 9pm... when I reached a young woman on her laptop, I checked my watch to see the exact time, and told her closing time was in 15 minutes. She gave me some attitude right there, and then said as she was leaving "You know, you didn't have to be so RUDE to me." I asked why she felt I was being rude, and she replied that it was how I looked at my watch. In the most passive-aggressively polite manner I could muster, I responded "I'm sorry you feel that way, but please let me know if you can think of a nicer way for me to check the time."

Some people just like to whine about anything, but as somebody who deals with the public every day, I have learned to keep my cool even in the face of extreme aggression... and believe me, that girl was NOTHING compared to some of the idjits I've encountered!
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:36 PM
 
Location: In the Redwoods
30,409 posts, read 52,025,350 times
Reputation: 23890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
government workers receive their pay through coercion (force), which isn't the same as someone who trades labor/skills for wages paid by willing customers.
And how is that the workers' fault? People here seem to be vilifying the WORKER, when they/we have done nothing except find a decent job. Would you rather we go on unemployment? I was on UI for a good portion of 2010, and literally took the first job that was offered - even though it required relocating (from the city I love) and taking a cut from what I usually earn. Maybe in a strong economy we have more choices, but for some professions we're literally stuck with public sector or nothing these days.
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Old 08-16-2012, 12:10 AM
 
Location: California
37,158 posts, read 42,290,039 times
Reputation: 35042
Quote:
A guy who digs ditches for a living "works hard". He also doesn't draw a 100K salary, because there are an almost unlimited supply of people who can do his job.
Funny thing about this is it all depends on what the ditch is being dug for. Just for fun, or maybe because you want a ditch in your yard for some reason, then what you say is true. For a city/government/military job or some sort you can probably figure them to be in some kind of union making pretty good money.
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Old 08-16-2012, 07:48 AM
 
13,053 posts, read 12,969,525 times
Reputation: 2618
Quote:
Originally Posted by emcee squared View Post
Damn those people making too much money. Shame on them.
I have no problem with people making as much money as they can in the "private market". This is why I don't think anything of entertainers making millions of dollars a year as they are able to appeal to the market and profit off it.

A meter maid is a public employee and their position takes no education, talent, discipline, or extensive training or knowledge to do. Compare them to those out there that make less or within the same range which do take a lot of training, education, etc... to do and you see the problem.

For instance, a network engineer's salary averages around 81k a year in southern California. To be a network engineer, you need to have a degree in Computer Science (or network engineering related major) and often certifications in Cisco, Juniper and many other product focuses. Those jobs also usually require 5+ years experience to obtain that level of salary. Now you can do it without a degree, but you will need to have either worked in the industry for many years (being able to demonstrate your expertise and knowledge) or have extensive certifications to which take an extreme amount of effort to obtain (CCNP, CCVP, CCSP etc... or the CCIE's) AND demonstrate your expertise and knowledge. That isn't even getting into the call support jobs at the CCNA level that require a lot of technical experience in routing and switching and yet often only pull in 35-45k a year.

So, explain to me how a meter maid getting paid a 100k a year is an appropriate salary when their required skill sets are nowhere near the level of the network engineer AND they are a public job that doesn't have to compete in the industry?

That is the problem. We are paying menial labor jobs more or often equal to that of the more technical or demanding jobs out there. What do you think will happen if that trend continues? hint: people will stop trying to excel in the more difficult disciplines and seek to be employed in the less required jobs that pay lotto earnings for being able to know how to read and write.

If anything, this shows how out of touch government is.
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Old 08-16-2012, 07:53 AM
 
13,053 posts, read 12,969,525 times
Reputation: 2618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceece View Post
Funny thing about this is it all depends on what the ditch is being dug for. Just for fun, or maybe because you want a ditch in your yard for some reason, then what you say is true. For a city/government/military job or some sort you can probably figure them to be in some kind of union making pretty good money.

Because government has no concept of value. They don't have the risk that a private business does who lives in reality. Paying a ditch digger "pretty good money" is only viable when your business can afford it or there is a lack of interest to get people to do it. Since when has the government ever worried about being able to "afford" anything?
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Old 08-16-2012, 07:54 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
8,087 posts, read 9,857,672 times
Reputation: 6650
I checked the more upscale section of South Florida, Coral Gables, and a parking enforcement officer earns from $29000 to $35000 yearly based on voluntary salary disclosures from indeed.com

In my opinion that would correlate to $54000 to $70000 in San Francisco to live at a similar level.

$24400 is the average income in Miami. Coral Gables should be a bit higher.

I know my very young and HS only educated admin staff start at about $24960yearly. Parking might be more selective due to public contact and minimal supervision.
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Old 08-16-2012, 08:02 AM
 
13,053 posts, read 12,969,525 times
Reputation: 2618
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post
And how is that the workers' fault? People here seem to be vilifying the WORKER, when they/we have done nothing except find a decent job. Would you rather we go on unemployment? I was on UI for a good portion of 2010, and literally took the first job that was offered - even though it required relocating (from the city I love) and taking a cut from what I usually earn. Maybe in a strong economy we have more choices, but for some professions we're literally stuck with public sector or nothing these days.
I think people are just angry in general to see this going on. I know it angers me to see people in these lower skill jobs making as much as I do when I have to constantly read thousands of pages of technical material per month (that doesn't include the massive amount of learning I went through to even get up to this level), be under massive pressure to perform and produce. If I mess up in my job, it costs the business money and I lose my job, period. All of this is acceptable because it pays well, but what benefit is there to all of those pressures if I get paid the same as a person who rides around writing tickets? If you pay the laymen the same as the experts, you will end up with a society filled with laymen because nobody will put in the effort to be better than a laymen.
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Old 08-16-2012, 08:19 AM
 
1,058 posts, read 1,161,853 times
Reputation: 624
This highlights a lot of the problems that the Big 3 auto mfgs were going through. Essentially they could only cut their costs so much because they had these huge legacy costs that they could not shed.

The same is true for states like California. More and more of the budget will be eaten up by retiree healthcare and retiree pension obligations. As liberal as California is I cannot imagine people paying increased taxes so that a retired meter maid can continue to collect benefits.
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Old 08-16-2012, 08:19 AM
 
13,053 posts, read 12,969,525 times
Reputation: 2618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix C View Post
I checked the more upscale section of South Florida, Coral Gables, and a parking enforcement officer earns from $29000 to $35000 yearly based on voluntary salary disclosures from indeed.com

In my opinion that would correlate to $54000 to $70000 in San Francisco to live at a similar level.

$24400 is the average income in Miami. Coral Gables should be a bit higher.

I know my very young and HS only educated admin staff start at about $24960yearly. Parking might be more selective due to public contact and minimal supervision.

If that were the reasoning for higher pay, retail clerks would get paid a lot more (public contact) and janitors would be raking in the cash (minimal supervision).

Point is, they write parking tickets and once you learn the job, there is no more learning required. The job is static and mundane in those requirements. It should be making much much lower than that. It should be near entry level job focus, not career focus.

Also, I think your wage index analysis is off.
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Old 08-16-2012, 08:24 AM
 
13,053 posts, read 12,969,525 times
Reputation: 2618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
This highlights a lot of the problems that the Big 3 auto mfgs were going through. Essentially they could only cut their costs so much because they had these huge legacy costs that they could not shed.

The same is true for states like California. More and more of the budget will be eaten up by retiree healthcare and retiree pension obligations. As liberal as California is I cannot imagine people paying increased taxes so that a retired meter maid can continue to collect benefits.

They don't have any choice. California is so thoroughly corrupted that it has to collapse before it can repair itself (which may be sooner than later as they aren't slowing down even a bit in their taxing/fees/political crusades).
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