Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
1. Everyone needs health care at some point and will use western doctors. But people that don't want western doctors shouldn't be forced to participate just because of where they live.
2. It's only fair and just that people that use it pay into it. No free-riders. In a free-market system, this can happen.
3. Money spent on advertising and marketing informs the consumer of their options and allows information sharing among medical practioners. This is a vital service that benefits everyone.
4. Having one big nationwide free-market system gives you better care at cheaper prices.
5. In the countries that have free-market systems, large majorities of their populations like it. That's not to say there's not room for improvement, but they would not want to switch to our system. I think this is important.
6. While its true that certain individuals of means do travel to the free-market systems to recieve care a similar system here would grant access to everyone, including the poor.
7. We already have the framework for such a system in place. Just get the government out of healthcare.
8. Obamacare is not a true universal system and will only lead to worse care at higher costs.
And the first person that tells me the United States has a free-market system gets slapped. lols.
Well, whatever system the US has (free market or not) clearly isn't working for millions of people. The problem with using the free market for health care is that it's a whole different thing from buying a stereo or a car. If you can't afford the Mercedes, then buy the Civic works perfectly in the free market car buying world. The following does not work: "you need a quadruple bypass, but since the cough drops are within your budget, I'm prescribing you the extra strength Luden's". My point is that it's not a commodity. People use different sets of parameters and have no expertise.
Status:
"everybody getting reported now.."
(set 26 days ago)
Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,571 posts, read 16,556,695 times
Reputation: 6044
Quote:
Originally Posted by butkus51
.......without attacking the right's positions?
The right says lower taxes the left says "you don't care about others'.
The right says gun control does not work the left says "you want dead children'.
The right says work hard and strive to do better the left says "it takes a village" and "you didn't build that".
The right says character is important the left says "moral relativism and situational ethics".
That's the short list. It would be novel if for once the left actually could articulate why they believe what they believe without saying "b-b-b-but Bush". It would also be refreshing if they could make an argument based on the merits of their belief system without the nuance, dodge, ducking, obfuscating, straw man, demonizing or otherwise going after the right simply because we believe differently. For those on the left, for once try to say why what you believe is best for this nation has merit without attacking the right.
It has already been stated on this thread, but it seems as if the OP is doing the bold. Liberals have answered these questions and many more without ducking or dodging. How many times have right wingers responded to someone and call them a communist or socialist simply because they can not explain why they dislike something being said by a liberal ?
That being said, lets divulge into the examples you used.
Lowering taxes isnt really an argument, that is more of a statement, you did not give a reason for lowering taxes, that would have been the argument. But if we go buy the usual suspects its because " businesses will hire. No business has ever hired simply because they(the business) had extra money, they hire because there is an economic need for a larger workforce. Tax breaks dont work unless the economy is doing good and the equilibrium has moved.
The whole "gun laws dont work" argument has never been true. The same chart showing gun violence vs gun laws has been posted 100 times on this site. States with stricture laws have less gun violence.
It is that simple.
When has the left ever said that you shouldnt work hard and strive to do better ? You are doing the exact same thing you claimed liberals where doing with lines like that, and again. That is a statement, not an argument/position.
Im not even sure what that last one means, im assuming it has to do with you not understanding liberal ideology/personal governance.
Liberals believe that you have the right to do as you please concerning your personal life, but not anyone else. I thought conservatives believed the same, at least the Ron Paul ones do, " You can not legislate morality" and stuff like that.
There is a difference between being personally for something vs. it not being your business if someone else does it as long as it doesnt hurt others.
It does not keep costs down and those that access it will have to pay for it. I think there is a misconception that it will be free. Not only that, it has been backed up until at least 2015 because many states cannot get the exchanges set up. Had the plan capped what doctors charge, it may be viable. There are no such caps. So the savings that were purported to take place will not happen. Another problem is that whatever plan you purchase, it has to conform with Obamacare's standards of acceptability. Right now I pay for a high deductible plan to the tune of $200 a month for two people. It is bare bones. It will not be acceptable under Obamacare. So that means that I will either pay the increase out-of-pocket or take a subsidy to help pay for it. That is not choice. Then we have the 23 new taxes and other assorted 'fees' attached in the plan. The plan submitted to OMB originally was amended later to include costs not disclosed at first. And Sebelius double counting Medicare funds in an attempt to sell Congress on the viability of Obamacare said a lot also. There was and is much deception in this bill and we still do not know what is in it.
Bottom line is that it was poorly put together, not thought through properly, costs more than advetised and leaves people with less choice and inevitably higher costs.
I agree. See my point number 8 in my healthcare post.
The right says lower taxes the left says "you don't care about others'.
The right says gun control does not work the left says "you want dead children'.
The right says work hard and strive to do better the left says "it takes a village" and "you didn't build that".
The right says character is important the left says "moral relativism and situational ethics".
That's the short list. It would be novel if for once the left actually could articulate why they believe what they believe without saying "b-b-b-but Bush". It would also be refreshing if they could make an argument based on the merits of their belief system without the nuance, dodge, ducking, obfuscating, straw man, demonizing or otherwise going after the right simply because we believe differently. For those on the left, for once try to say why what you believe is best for this nation has merit without attacking the right.
Read my posts over the years, because if you had you wouldn't have even bothered to make such a ridiculous thread.
Well, whatever system the US has (free market or not) clearly isn't working for millions of people. The problem with using the free market for health care is that it's a whole different thing from buying a stereo or a car. If you can't afford the Mercedes, then buy the Civic works perfectly in the free market car buying world. The following does not work: "you need a quadruple bypass, but since the cough drops are within your budget, I'm prescribing you the extra strength Luden's". My point is that it's not a commodity. People use different sets of parameters and have no expertise.
But how does Obamacare lessen the cost? Costs are not controlled under Obamacare. And all the insurance companies will do is drive up the premiums. They have no choice. If you compel people to buy a Cadillac insurance policy then you pay for the Cadillac.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
