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Old 07-01-2013, 03:38 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,231,797 times
Reputation: 17209

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCharlotte View Post
Your last statement is irrelevant since you are unable to articulate it to this thread. You also have the right not to be shot while sitting in your house by a cop. Who cares? Nothing to do with this case.

As for the first, it depends on the insurance company. It will not be settled on the merits.
The courts did it for me when the charges were dropped. It's obvious why they were dropped. The reason has been noted over and over and over and over. He broke no law to get himself arrested. Since he was arrested anyway he will sue and win.
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Old 07-01-2013, 03:57 AM
 
5,150 posts, read 7,767,541 times
Reputation: 1443
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
The courts did it for me when the charges were dropped. It's obvious why they were dropped. The reason has been noted over and over and over and over. He broke no law to get himself arrested. Since he was arrested anyway he will sue and win.
You still can't articulate what you are talking about. You seem good with words, why can't you say what the courts did for you and what happened with you. Just because you for instance got beat up with a flashlight and got a settlement doesn't mean that young Jared will.

You've put nothing forward that wouldn't be defeated by immunity. Let me help you:

1) Cop - if probably cause he didn't even have to see the child mouth off. He could have arrested him upon arrival and it would have been legit as long as what he did was reasonable and I don't mean reasonable as in a 14 year old put words in your brain which is the case here. Cops cannot be constantly scared that if they arrest someone and they think there is probable cause that they will be sued. A simple arrest where the kid himself says he was mouthing off is established.

2) Prosecutor - Has absolute immunity and cannot under any circumstances in this case be held liable. Not qualified immunity but absolute immunity.

3) Judge - not even wasting my time on this. If a judge can be prosecuted every time she holds a hearing and determines probable cause then there would be no judges. Absolute immunity.

4) School teacher - not enough time to violate civil rights. At worse he made a mistake and told the child to go to the office. No civil rights violation. He did not decree with any authority that the child was banned from wearing said t-shirts. Qualified immunity for the same reason as the cop. He thought he was doing the right thing and there was no injury to the child.

5) School - Again, not enough time to violate anything. The boy shifted the issue from one of speech to one of disobedience. The proper thing would have been to do what he was told and then file a grievance but he ruined it with his own mouth. The school did nothing against him except issue a 1 day suspension for misbehaving not for the shirt. In fact, Jared and several other students either wore the exact same shirt two days later and were not bothered by it. Does this mean the teacher was wrong? Maybe. Haven't seen anything official. But even if he was there is no violation.

No violation + No injury + immunity = 50% chance there won't be a lawsuit and 75% chance there will be no settlement and 100% chance there will be no settlement on the merits.

Most likely scenario if they file is a dismissal for no claim stated (just like you're doing) or on immunity whichever is filed first. They can't be dumb enough to take your legal advise and go after the prosecutor so the cop should have an easy out on immunity and then the rest on not stating a claim.
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Old 07-01-2013, 06:13 AM
 
59,113 posts, read 27,340,319 times
Reputation: 14289
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCharlotte View Post
I don't agree. First, where did I say that? And it is absolutely clear that the majority of his defenders say that it was his right to speak however he pleased because the Constitution said so. Since most of this class (I'd bet including you) think the charge was bogus because of what happened with the t-shirt, you are absolutely saying that he does not have to follow the law because of his 2nd Amendment t-shirt violation.
"you are absolutely saying that he does not have to follow the law because of his 2nd Amendment t-shirt violation.'

YOU keep bringing up "the law". What law are you talking about?
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Old 07-01-2013, 07:53 AM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,974 posts, read 27,023,656 times
Reputation: 15645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultor View Post
More background on the lengths this prosecutor went to 'nail' this 'criminal':

Prosecutors Sought Gag Order - Reporter Threatened With 'obstructing an officer'.
This seems to be the rule of the day now. Make a mistake, realize it then do everything possible to shut people up and stop it from being revealed by any means possible both legal and illegal.
Of course they could do what people who possess morals and honor do, admit the mistake, apologize, make it right and move on.
No, they'd rather risk scandal,lawsuit and disgust than take the high road.
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Old 07-01-2013, 08:05 AM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,974 posts, read 27,023,656 times
Reputation: 15645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
Please tell me this constitutional scholar is doing community service for wasting peoples time and disrupting the school he attended. It would be great if one of these parents would actually own up to the mistakes of their child and take responsibility, too much disregard for authority and a teaching moment lost.
Yep, one must be taught early and often to cower,scrape and bow to anyone who's station in life is higher than yours.
Just because someone's got a badge does NOT make them all powerful and OZ like. I'd say the cop needs some retraining in how to deal with stress and anger. He also needs to be reminded who he works for which isn't just adults in power.
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Old 07-01-2013, 01:59 PM
 
5,150 posts, read 7,767,541 times
Reputation: 1443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
"you are absolutely saying that he does not have to follow the law because of his 2nd Amendment t-shirt violation.'

YOU keep bringing up "the law". What law are you talking about?
I'm asking for information on a law that a child invokes and you are asking me? Ask him. And the law is clearly in the text above that you quoted.
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Old 07-01-2013, 02:03 PM
 
5,150 posts, read 7,767,541 times
Reputation: 1443
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
This seems to be the rule of the day now. Make a mistake, realize it then do everything possible to shut people up and stop it from being revealed by any means possible both legal and illegal.
Of course they could do what people who possess morals and honor do, admit the mistake, apologize, make it right and move on.
No, they'd rather risk scandal,lawsuit and disgust than take the high road.
That is a matter of fairness. To believe otherwise is un-American. There is no one way street when it comes to the court of public opinion but you jumped on that street car from the beginning.

The gag order request is what lead to the resolution mostly due to the fact the person that negotiated the settlement has more legal authority over the boy and also more estrogen.

People that posses morals and honor do not judge facts by one side of the story. But you did because that's what you wanted to believe not based on facts.

So how about admit your mistake, apologize, make it right and move on?
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Old 07-01-2013, 02:04 PM
 
5,150 posts, read 7,767,541 times
Reputation: 1443
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
I'd say the cop needs some retraining in how to deal with stress and anger. He
also needs to be reminded who he works for which isn't just adults in power.
Based upon what a child told you. You are not for the rule of law. You are for anarchy over the Constitution.
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Old 07-01-2013, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Soldotna
2,256 posts, read 2,132,064 times
Reputation: 1079
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCharlotte View Post
You still can't articulate what you are talking about. You seem good with words, why can't you say what the courts did for you and what happened with you. Just because you for instance got beat up with a flashlight and got a settlement doesn't mean that young Jared will.

You've put nothing forward that wouldn't be defeated by immunity. Let me help you:

1) Cop - if probably cause he didn't even have to see the child mouth off. He could have arrested him upon arrival and it would have been legit as long as what he did was reasonable and I don't mean reasonable as in a 14 year old put words in your brain which is the case here. Cops cannot be constantly scared that if they arrest someone and they think there is probable cause that they will be sued. A simple arrest where the kid himself says he was mouthing off is established.

2) Prosecutor - Has absolute immunity and cannot under any circumstances in this case be held liable. Not qualified immunity but absolute immunity.

3) Judge - not even wasting my time on this. If a judge can be prosecuted every time she holds a hearing and determines probable cause then there would be no judges. Absolute immunity.

4) School teacher - not enough time to violate civil rights. At worse he made a mistake and told the child to go to the office. No civil rights violation. He did not decree with any authority that the child was banned from wearing said t-shirts. Qualified immunity for the same reason as the cop. He thought he was doing the right thing and there was no injury to the child.

5) School - Again, not enough time to violate anything. The boy shifted the issue from one of speech to one of disobedience. The proper thing would have been to do what he was told and then file a grievance but he ruined it with his own mouth. The school did nothing against him except issue a 1 day suspension for misbehaving not for the shirt. In fact, Jared and several other students either wore the exact same shirt two days later and were not bothered by it. Does this mean the teacher was wrong? Maybe. Haven't seen anything official. But even if he was there is no violation.

No violation + No injury + immunity = 50% chance there won't be a lawsuit and 75% chance there will be no settlement and 100% chance there will be no settlement on the merits.

Most likely scenario if they file is a dismissal for no claim stated (just like you're doing) or on immunity whichever is filed first. They can't be dumb enough to take your legal advise and go after the prosecutor so the cop should have an easy out on immunity and then the rest on not stating a claim.

Quite a few arrests result in judgments and/or settlements.

Arrest, even with minimal incarceration has resulted in successful suits because it is considered an injury.

You don't sue the cop or prosecutor. You sue the city/county.

While any judgment won't be large there is a good possibility of one existing. Though most cities will just settle the suit, not always with money.

And as for qualified and absolute immunity for cops and prosecutors respectively, if you can show malevolence or willful neglect that immunity evaporate.

While it isn't that easy to show malevolence in this case it isn't impossible. Especially depending on how a judge leans.
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Old 07-01-2013, 02:41 PM
 
Location: USA
5,738 posts, read 5,447,174 times
Reputation: 3669
The issue here is that our schools are fascist youth prisons, you need your head checked if you see an issue with partisan politics.
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