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Old 07-04-2013, 03:56 PM
 
9,639 posts, read 6,020,664 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Relying solely upon your phraseology, who do you suggest should play the role of enforcer other than government? You, the mob, some corporation with a contract with Black Water (I don't think Pinkerton is still in the business)? Should we have a bunch of little fiefdoms acting as multiple adjudicators?

I patently await your reply.
As long as it's a conservative doing it, bob wouldn't have a problem with that.
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:57 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,060,237 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquidworth View Post
As long as it's a conservative doing it, bob wouldn't have a problem with that.
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:03 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,975,497 times
Reputation: 7315
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Relying solely upon your phraseology, who do you suggest should play the role of enforcer other than government? You, the mob, some corporation with a contract with Black Water (I don't think Pinkerton is still in the business)? Should we have a bunch of little fiefdoms acting as multiple adjudicators?

I patently await your reply.
It would vary depending on what we seek to solve, but many problems have free market solutions.

Workplace injuries used to be commonly caused by bad operations which were going to have an unusual amount of terrible injuries and deaths. We rectified that , and the biggest driver was corps want lower insurance costs, so we have in place a free market incentive to promote workplace safety.

The big picture is libs have created an outsized gov't which will have to choose within a decade or two b/w middle class entitlements like SS, and lower income entitlements. Had libs been smart, they would have forced the Feds to cut a gov't job for every gov't job added to play watchdog over more stuff.

Last edited by bobtn; 07-04-2013 at 04:18 PM..
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:09 PM
 
252 posts, read 264,199 times
Reputation: 152
As we exist now, the government is necessary to balance the unlimited wants of the people. The government has consistently overstepped its role of protector and arbitrator, as all things given power will. To posit that liberals are somehow more inclined to look to the government for solutions is inaccurate. Conservatives use the law to prevent women from having abortions, prevent gays from marrying, arrest people that smoke pot, limit free trade. Obviously liberals use the tool that is the government just as much, but to attack one side without taking a deep look within belies the simplicity of thought, hypocrisy of word, arrogance of position, of a person who only understands themselves. Shame on you for this careless attack.
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Southern California
15,080 posts, read 20,479,858 times
Reputation: 10343
Quote:
Originally Posted by FKD19124 View Post
Why do you hate the idea of allowing health plans compete across state lines?
Why do you feel children should be made to go to public schools even if the public school in their
area is a total mess ( i.e. Philadelphia ).
If you are so concerned about freedom, why not let the people decide what is best for their lives?
You may want to ask Conservatives that question, too.

[both sides use government regulations to advance their respective ideologies]
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,282 posts, read 6,744,646 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmccullough View Post
Conservatives, why do you feel that lying about liberals is the only way to win arguments?
we dont lie about liberals, we just bring up many, many, many of their sad and failed ideas.
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,282 posts, read 6,744,646 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
That's a government solution to the problem.

You fail.
it is a voter and market based solution, you fail.
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:23 PM
 
4,278 posts, read 5,179,752 times
Reputation: 2375
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
What I read here is mirror thinking. The right-wing believes that the government should do very little and can't do anything correctly. They are for smaller government as a matter of principle -- smaller government for its own sake. And so they naturally imagine that liberals must want bigger government as a goal in itself.

But it’s not true. I don’t know any liberals who gloat over increases in the federal payroll or the government share of GDP. Progressives have things they want the government to do -- like guaranteeing health care, making sure the environment is clean and making sure people are protected against big corporations. Size of government per se doesn’t matter. But people on the right apparently can’t get that.

On health care, there is really no such thing as "allowing health plans to compete across state lines." Health care is dominated by a small number of big insurance companies that exist in each state. Blue Cross of NY isn't going to compete against Blue Cross of NJ. They are the same company that happens to operate in different states.

Your public school "choice" question is really asking "why don't we give out vouchers so people can choose the school that fits them." Why? Because the vouchers never cover the full cost of sending a child to a private school. So poor kids can't afford the difference to attend the "better school." Vouchers are really a flim-flam designed to subsidize, with public funds, rich people who are going to send their kids to elite private schools anyway.
I can ask the same question of conservatives. If they are all for freedom, why not let the woman decide what is best for their lives instead of trying to control their reproductive choices? You see, conservatism is hypocrisy. They are all for deregulating polluters and financial companies but really want to control different aspects of people's lives.

I think the people on the Right have history to point to for the failure of big government. Just look at the the government failed ideas in the depression of the 1930's and made it into the Great Depression. The "forgotten man" got skinned by FDR and his economic "advisers".

JFK rattles his saber and almost caused a nuke war then doubled down too go charging off to Vietnam to save the little brown people. Followed up by LBJ and his "Great Society" programs that have all pretty much failed.

Toss in government's sad racial history, Jim Crow laws, etc...and now affirmative action...which punishes a innocent group of people for the crimes committed by previous government officials. But what the heck....

We saw a huge government induced housing bubble with the two federal housing agencies giving out money to anyone that comes to the door and then blames wall street for trying to make money on the deal. Did anyone in government get fired? Or Wall Street? Nope...

Health Care - Sure, Medicare was suppose to only cost a few billion dollars by the year 2000 but that did not turn out even close. Now we have Obama care with the same promise to 'fix" it. Really?

EPA - Sure it's nice to have clean air but who determines the standards? Sure, shut down coal and watch the lights go out for everyone but big government. Watch the few remaining factors shut their doors and move overseas. Harsh? Perhaps, but that is the real world. Want to see EPA in action? Talk to the trucking industry and witness first hand the various failed ideas to "clean up diesel trucks". Wait a few years and you will see a gallon of milk go for ten dollars because there are very few trucking companies running.

Government is suppose to protect the people against evil companies? Who is going to protect the people from big government? Just go ask a young black male who he fears more...big government policeman or a big company that might give him a job. How did that IRS thing work out? I better watch it or NSA might be after me too.

Don't like letting people like me keep the money so I can send my child to a good private school vice a failed public school? Why? 50 years of declining public schools is not enough proof that big government is clueless about education. Don't worry. Dept. of Ed. got their fair share of cash the last 30 years with zero to show for it. Where I live, 50 percent of the 10th grade kids tested failed the reading test....50 percent...now tell me again why you can't let me have my tax money back so I can pick a better school?

You rail against big government telling women they can't kill the unborn child but love big government to tell us how to live our lives in every other area? Why? The unborn child has no rights? After 40 years of abortion, 40 million dead, even the Justices on the Supreme court said it was a bad decision. 50 states outlaws abortion and 9 justices told them to pack sand...big government knows best...

You don't like deregulation? Really, do you own a business? I do. Trucking company. You want to see paperwork, go ask a OTR trucker...just go on internet and read the trucking forums....type in "working hours" for drivers....and see if those regulations are easy to follow...and oh by the way...80 percent of all trucker/car accidents are caused by cars..not trucks...but hey...big government thinks otherwise...despite the data....

At the end of the day...education is a failure, medical care is bankrupting the nation, government workers are some of the highest paid in the nation, 3.7 trillion dollars in spending, at the federal level is not enough, a trillion dollars spent on welfare at the federal level last year and yet we have the highest poverty rates in our history...

Tell us, "When does big government get it right?"
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:24 PM
 
9,639 posts, read 6,020,664 times
Reputation: 8567
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
it is a voter and market based solution, you fail.
No it's not.
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:34 PM
 
Location: The Brat Stop
8,347 posts, read 7,243,959 times
Reputation: 2279
Default Liberals, why do you feel the government is the best solution to all our problems?

I was kind of hoping CONServatives would have the answers to all of America's problems, evidently, they don't because the problems still exist. What's that tell you?
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