Zimmerman Trial Part 5 The Jury Decides (Houston, racist, Obama, Hispanic)

[Frank_Carbonni]

Originally Posted by ChocLot

I thought Zimmerman was the MMA fighter? Why is this all of a sudden attributed to Trayvon?

He took a few MMA classes. That is not the same thing as an MMA fighter or even a competent fighter.

I was on my high school's wrestling team... Over ten years ago. And although I understand grappling better than most people, I don't have enough confidence that being a mediocre wrestler over a decade ago and follow-up by over ten years of sedentary jobs would sufficiently prepare me to defend my life in similar circumstances.

I can also say with confidence that the 17 year old version of myself would almost certainly beat the living s--t out of the 29 year old version of myself. I was heavier, stronger, more active, more aggressive, and I was more accustomed to physical violence. I haven't been in a fight since I was 18 or 19* and I have no business getting into physical confrontations nowadays.


*Okay. Not exactly true. I did get into a fight about two years ago at the birthday party of a coworker. There was this guido who was being really obnoxious. He kept taking his shirt off to show off his abs and kept hitting on this chick in front of her boyfriend. He was just being a complete ass. After several hours of listening to his bragging I made a smartass comment to response to something he said to this chick I was talking to. He took offense and grabbed the collar of my shirt and went to hit me. I grabbed him back and we ended up in struggle and I managed to get him into a chokehold and choke him until he lost consciousness. I immediately let go once he went limp. He came to within seconds and was pretty sheepish for the rest of the night and later came up to me to apologize. I don't count that one as fight because the entire thing was over in about fifteen seconds, I didn't get hit, I didn't hit him, and the only bruising was of the guido's ego. I also admit that I was very lucky. I didn't expect the violent reaction I got from him and if it weren't my basic knowledge of chokeholds and my vestigial wrestling skills, I would have been in a fight with a younger (about 23 or 24) and stronger man and that night could have ended very badly for me.

Originally Posted by Zimbochick

I'm wondering if the people hating on Martin would feel the same way if he had shot Zimmerman in self-defense if he had been legally carrying a weapon?

If Zimmerman was on top of Trayvon and punching him in the face and slamming Trayvon's head into the concrete and Trayvon got a hold of Zimmerman's gun (or his own if he had one) and shot Zimmerman. I would have no complaints about Trayvon's actions.

Originally Posted by ChocLot

Let's assume you are correct. We don't know how long Trayvon continued to beat Zimmerman. Your argument would hold more weight if we knew for sure how long the fight (and supposed life threatening beating) lasted.

Like I said on the other thread. A fight does not need to last very long for someone to be seriously injured. According most police officers, self-defense experts, and martial artists that most street fights last less than a minute and is often over in less than 30 seconds. It's not like the movie They Live where two guys can pummel each other for seven minutes straight. I saw CCTV footage where one man assaulted another outside of a nightclub. He walked up behind a guy and punched him in the back of the head and started punching and kicking the guy while he was on the ground. The entire attack lasted about twenty seconds and the victim ended up with brain damage and he was only punch about three or four time and kicked seven times. That is all it took to partially paralyze that man.

Although considering some of the comments on these threads I am fully expecting at least one commenter to refer to that particular man as a p---y for being so easily brain damaged.

Originally Posted by ChocLot

Here is where we differ:

I am basing my feelings off of what we know happened: Zimmerman spotting Trayvon, deciding to leave his car (with a gun) and follow Trayvon.

I am NOT basing my opinions off of what happened once they met up.

What are you basing Martin's poor judgements off of?

Actually, that makes a lot of sense that you not basing your opinions off of what happened in the vital moments that lead up to the shooting. It explains why your opinions are so stupid. It is because you are not basing your opinions on the most important facts and events that lead up to the shooting.

Originally Posted by Zimbochick

So you're saying Martin was justified in defending himself from a stranger following him in the dark?

Possibly. If he thought that Zimmerman was trying to assault him in some way and felt that an attack was imminent and he decided to chose the terms of the fight than Trayvon wouldn't have been in the wrong if he thought, "Okay. There is this guy following me and it is clear that he is following me. I don't know who this guy or what he wants. I just have a bad feeling about this guy. He could be a serial killer for all I know. I could probably take him, but he is pretty stocky and if he gets a hold of me or strikes first he might win and who knows what might happen then. I'll just lay low and if comes by here I will clock him first and not leave it to chance and call for help if it comes to that."

But that still doesn't make Zimmerman's actions wrong even if Trayvon's actions were motivated by a genuine concern for his safety. It just means that Zimmerman was the victim of mistaken identity and was defending himself against the consequences of that mistake.

Originally Posted by juppiter

All the Zimmerman supporters can just go ahead and go to a KKK meeting OK? Not gonna tolerate it any more.

Yes. Because the Klan would absolutely love a guy who is half-Hispanic and a quarter black and was raised Catholic.

Originally Posted by Bulldogdad

I've answered everyone of your questions you just didnt like the response. YOUR CULTURE HAS A PROBLEM killing themselves. Legalizing drugs wont help if that's your idiotic answer.

Causes not symptoms, thats how you treat the cancer that is killing your race.

I somewhat disagree. A lot of the violence in the black community has to drug dealers and gangs fighting over turf. Legalizing drugs would have a pretty dramatic effective on the murder rate in the black community the same way that the repeal of Prohibition had on the murder rate in the Italian and Jewish communities.

However, that still wouldn't deal with many of the murders in the black community that stem over bulls--t beefs that escalate into aggravated assault and murder on a routine basis.

Originally Posted by ChocLot

Do you believe OJ was innocent?

No.

Nor the cops in the Rodney King case.

[EddieB.Good]

Originally Posted by Bhaalspawn

Believe what you want to believe, I guess. Trayvon wasn't the one with the broken nose. He didn't have any signs of attack on him at all. If that makes you feel better about your racial identity and assists you in blaming big bad Whitey for all of the black community's self-inflicted problems, then so be it.

So no answer about why you are so willing to believe GZ account w/o any skepticism.

But feel free to paint a random Black guy who's said nothing about racial identity or "Whitey" as a caricature of Black people.

I just hope you remember how you chose to believe a narrative of an unarmed Black teen and chose to assign a stereotype to a Black man you know from a handful of posts, so that the next time you try to claim how you're not a racist, you realize that you probably are.

Originally Posted by freightshaker

You keep saying that Zimmerman ignored police direction... He did not... He ignored a civilian dispatchers direction who is NOT a police officer. The trial is over.. The evidence has been heard and we are continuing to move negatively.... It's time to move ahead.. Sorry, but I'm getting tired of argueing the same points over and over...

I'm sure Zimmerman knew that those weren't cops that he ignored.

Originally Posted by Hot_Handz

What? "Black people cannot escaped themselves" would have made much more sense than what you just laid out.

MHP laid it out clearly. I summarized her points clearly. If you can't understand what two different people said, then that's your problem to fix. I'm not going to hold your hand through a simple set of concepts.

What is "Neighborhood Watch"?? What are they supposed to do? Please tell me...

Not shoot people? Follow the advise of police?

[bobtn]

Originally Posted by tigerwoodsyall

The concept is not bad, in fact it's good neighbors looking out after neighbors but yeah some people go too far and act like billy the kid or something.
I don't feel bad for the dude at all, like I said I think he is an idiot. Not only did he keep following him but he actually got out to confront him lol
Dudes life is prob. ****ed up now lol.

The concept is bad, as again, those attracted to it are too often, from what I have seen, not intelligent, prone to making bad decisions, and would never be considered for say any of the better criminal justice programs nationally.


In short, a community with one is a community awaiting an incident just like what occured in Sanford.

[EddieB.Good]

Originally Posted by Hot_Handz

Sure there is....

The testimony + deductive reasoning is much, much more indicative of Zimmerman being cracked preemptively...preemptively from a PERCEIVED threat.

EDIT: and when I say "perceived threat" I am being verrrrry generous...because I believe Martin wanted to teach the" creepy cracker" a lesson

So the kid who was a guest in the neighborhood, and tried to run away leads you to deduce that he MUST have been the one who initiated the confrontation? And the guy who was stalking the kid and disobeyed police direction, MUST have turned into a pacifist once they crossed paths.

[Hot_Handz]

Originally Posted by ChocLot

Again, there is no proof he *initiated* the confrontation. Is there proof he beat Zimmerman up? Absolutely. But that doesn't equal he started the fight.

Not sure why this is so hard to understand. It's fairly simple.

Maybe he followed Zimmerman for the same reason Zimmerman followed him: to identify a suspicious person in his neighborhood.

Oh really? Martin was concerned about his neighborhood? What basis do you have to substantiate that claim?

[ChocLot]

Originally Posted by Dockside

CNN will make sure that won't happen.

Originally Posted by Hot_Handz

Oh really? Martin was concerned about his neighborhood? What basis do you have to substantiate that claim?

Where do I say Trayvon was concerned about the neighborhood? Stop trying to read between the lines and just read.

[Hot_Handz]

Originally Posted by EddieB.Good

So no answer about why you are so willing to believe GZ account w/o any skepticism.

Doesn't matter....skepticism leading to a dead end is not enough to send somebody under the jail.

But feel free to paint a random Black guy who's said nothing about racial identity or "Whitey" as a caricature of Black people.

I just hope you remember how you chose to believe a narrative of an unarmed Black teen and chose to assign a stereotype to a Black man you know from a handful of posts, so that the next time you try to claim how you're not a racist, you realize that you probably are.

Maybe sometime, somebodies "racial profiling" will lead to sparing your welfare or your hard earned property and you will realize how irresponsible conveniently slapping the race card down is.

My wife is, technically, "black"...maybe you need to find a new word...or a more descriptive context of "racist"..although I know the broad term is so much more convenient
, or just plain fun, to use.

I'm sure Zimmerman knew that those weren't cops that he ignored.

What law did he break?

MHP laid it out clearly. I summarized her points clearly. If you can't understand what two different people said, then that's your problem to fix. I'm not going to hold your hand through a simple set of concepts.

You don't have to...because you would simply be holding my hand through YOUR question begging. So thank you for being considerate enough to not waste anymore time than necessary.

Not shoot people? Follow the advise of police?

What would warrant the calling of police?

[Hot_Handz]

Originally Posted by ChocLot

Where do I say Trayvon was concerned about the neighborhood? Stop trying to read between the lines and just read.

Originally Posted by ChocLot

Maybe he followed Zimmerman for the same reason Zimmerman followed him: to identify a suspicious person in his neighborhood.

[SquareWheel]

lol

[ChocLot]

I said perhaps Trayvon was concerned about the suspicious guy, NOT the neighborhood.