27% of Medicare's budget goes for patients in their final year of life. (insurance, programs)

[burdell]

Originally Posted by Globe199

yeah, I have no idea what the point of this thread is. Eliminate everyone's final year of life? It's expensive when human health starts failing. There's no getting around that.

We spend over $500b on defense. Let's look at that for savings before we start talking about cutting funding for grandma's healthcare.

Even worse is what we spend on offense of no benefit to Americans.

[Ringo1]

Originally Posted by ocnjgirl

That's crazy! There are many people who have a great quality of life after 67, for goodness' sake. Many people still work at this age. I am aghast at this suggestion!

Yes, a bit Draconion.

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Good for them, but they cost too much to keep alive after that age. It's just the economic reality. Why should we ask young people to pay for them? Maybe an exception could be made for people still working on the condition that the care would return them to work. Otherwise, there is no economic sense in spending the kind of money we do simply to prolong the lives of unproductive people.

Who says people 67 and older are 'unproductive'? They are the ones caring for your children, volunteering their time at Churches and Libraries - you're getting a lot of free labor out of them.

I think what the OP was aiming for per the article - is HOW MUCH should be spent when your time is severely limited due to age or a terminal illness? Let's say you are 92 and have been given 6 months to live. Should you get that chemo? surgery? A whole lot of people would voluntarily opt out anyway - including most people in the medical profession because they see what happens when you prolong a terrible illness.

What is the right thing to do? I can tell you if I've had that stroke and I'm laying in the nursing home with someone changing my diapers and feeding me pureed food - GIVE ME THE SHOT; I'M OUTTA HERE.

[Ringo1]

Originally Posted by carterstamp

You beat me to it. So old people don't deserve medical care?

Originally Posted by softblueyz

Ahhh, I get it. Kill them off because it's all their fault. I think I've heard that from the whiners who aren't contributing anything to this country.

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

That is the emotional question. The reality answer is we can't afford to give them the care they think they deserve. They refused to pay for it when they were young. They refused to save for their own needs. Now, they want to borrow trillions that they will not have to repay to cover the staggering costs of keeping them alive a few more months than they might otherwise have. They simply are not worth it.

My 92 year old father certainly deserves medical care. He's fought in three wars; saved his money and his life has value to others - if not to the poster. However, he would NOT choose to prolong his life should he have a stroke, etc at this point in time. He most certainly would deserve to be made comfortable and to die with dignity. Would he want to be kept alive for a 'few more months' IF he wasn't really 'living'? No, he wouldn't.

However, to blame him for the condition this country is in - extremely unfair. He did HIS part.

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by Katiana

...


You don't know a lot about health care, and you need an empathy transplant.

Had to rep you for that.

[ocnjgirl]

Originally Posted by MTAtech

that does seem to be the only two choices, either treat the elderly in their final stages of life or deny them such care. If one denies such care, it is essentially the death panels that the GOP false claimed Obamacare instituted.

Those so-called "death panels" were never meant to deny treatment. The plan was to educate people about end of life issues.

[ocnjgirl]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

That is the emotional question. The reality answer is we can't afford to give them the care they think they deserve. They refused to pay for it when they were young. They refused to save for their own needs. Now, they want to borrow trillions that they will not have to repay to cover the staggering costs of keeping them alive a few more months than they might otherwise have. They simply are not worth it.

Where did you come up with this bit of nonsense from??

[jimhcom]

Originally Posted by MTAtech

that does seem to be the only two choices, either treat the elderly in their final stages of life or deny them such care. If one denies such care, it is essentially the death panels that the GOP false claimed Obamacare instituted.

I do not think the issue is whether to care for people or not, it is more the question of what level of care makes sense.
Unfortunately this is one more area where our technological ability to do something, has outpaced our intelligence to properly use that technology.
The fact that there are conflicts of interest financially further complicates the situation.
Pharmaceutical companies and large corporate medical facilities make huge profits by prolonging the lives of people who have neither the quality of life, nor a reasonable chance of recovery.
The fact that this very expensive care is being paid for by the tax payers who are given no say in any of it, and who’s interests are not being represented by anyone further complicates the issue.
I recently read an opinion by one doctor who related the difficulty in dealing with the families of a person who was terminal. He was relating how unreasonable the families could be and how were demanding extreme measures regardless of costs.
He said it was his opinion that if these people actually had to pay for the treatment themselves or have the money taken out of the estate, they would change their tune in a hurry.

[BigDGeek]

Originally Posted by Hoonose

This is quite true! What we really do not want is unnecessary testing and treatments that make no common sense with the elderly or dying patient. And the best pathway to make sure that this happens in the most sensible way is through direct involvement with the primary care physician. The primary care physician should be the one who knows and understands the patients medical condition most thoroughly,especially as it relates to the patients effective age, social milieu and prognosis. There should be a living will specifically set out, discussed and agreed upon. I also think we need to make more discussions and steps towards sensible euthanasia. Overall I do not think we can legislate reducing these costs. However with some proper nudging in the right places a huge amount of money can be saved without compromising on the care, contentment and best interests of our elderly.

I agree.

Personally I have made my wishes explicit to my family...I am not to be kept alive using extraordinary means if there is little to no hope of a meaningful recovery. If I'm going to be disabled for life, let me go.

I can only hope that by the time I'm old, euthanasia/assisted suicide is available. I do not want a lingering death attached to machines. It's all spelled out in a legal document. Unplug me, make me comfortable, and let nature take its course.

[Nomander]

How about this. Eliminate all of those programs and tell people to manage their own lives. It is a win/win as people get to keep their money and invest it as they see fit rather than having a bunch of lying faux concerned people blow smoke up peoples arse about how they care when in fact that could care less.

If you are going to support a program as such and justify theft from the american people to fund these programs, then you don't get to change your mind after you have the money and tell people to get lost when they start using it.

I swear, this society is degrading into a bunch of witless morons without a shred of responsibility to the stupid mandates they support.

[MTAtech]

Originally Posted by chielgirl

There's a third option, permit people to end their lives with dignity.
Assisted suicide is a valid response to terminal illness and dementia.
Heck, I have no problem with people ending their lives because they're tired of living.
It should be their choice.

The topic, as I read it, isn't about terminally ill patients. It's about what happens naturally prior to an old person dying, they use a lot of medical care at the end.