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"Should" has nothing to do with it. It's similar to thinking you deserve $15,000 for your used car, and getting no takers when you list it for that price. Your car is only worth $8,000 so whether or not you think you deserve $15,000 for it is pretty much IRRELEVANT. Somebody might be willing to give you $8,000, maybe even $8,200 if you found the right buyer, maybe $7,500 or $7,000 if things don't go well and you do a poor job of writing the ad or managing prospective buyers. The market is determining what it's worth, NOT you. It's worth what somebody will pay you for it, despite your sincerest hopes. You could protest and claim it's worth $15,000, that it's a good car with good features and a lot of labor went into making it and maintaining it... but it's not going to work. You could even get together with other sellers of the same car with the same mileage and organize a rally to claim you all deserve $15,000 for your used cars. Same effect.
Maybe you could even elect a liberal executive who would work to pass a law saying the car can't sell for less than $15,000. But you'll never pass a law forcing people to buy it from you. So, you'll still get no takers. Pity.
Of course, bringing it back to fast food employment, if you elect a liberal executive, you might actually succeed in getting an absurd minimum wage increase to $15/hour (I've heard more like $9/hour but whatever). But do you really think there would be no consequences? You still can't pass a law forcing companies to hire everyone who comes through the door, or not lay people off, or not replace people who now cost too much with robots, or not replace people who previously were paid a market-determined rate of $8/hour with much higher quality people that you could potentially lure from other jobs that pay a market-determined rate of $15/hour (or who, like me, would be willing to do 16 hours of part time work a week at $15/hour), now that you are FORCED to pay everyone $15/hour....
Going back to the car analogy, maybe you could expend some effort fixing the car up, cleaning, painting, doing all the mechanical tasks, fixing little things, and maybe somebody would then be willing to pay you more than $8000 for it. Probably not much more though. Fortunately, people have much more of an upside than a used car, IF they're willing to put in the time and effort in a smart way to make themselves more worthwhile. Just because you're only worth $8/hour today doesn't mean you can't improve yourself to the point where YOU are worth $15/hour, or even $25/hour. But trying to use a strike / protest or the coercive power of government to artificially increase what you're worth is a poor choice, doomed to failure.
I understand your car pricing analogy is rock solid logic to you, but it is not. First off one could sell the same car in a different city or a different location, different time of the week and one is likely to get offers that are higher or lower depending. Pricing is not a perfect science. In fact anyone can do a search right now of a car of the same make and model and general condition and will see different sales prices.
In fact, the price someone might pay is dependent on so many factors that don't just have to do with this is the value of the car that I am surprised you think it is as cut and dried as you portrayed.
But the larger problem is that a job is not like selling a car and therefore it is a terrible analogy to how people get the income that they receive.
Yet, that isn't the conservative problem, conservatives have a problem with these lowly workers who think they deserve and can demand $15 per hr for their lowly fast food job.
Can they get $15 per hr who knows?
But it doesn't bother me that they are asking or that they think their labor and time is worth that much.
conservatives have a fundamental problem with just them "thinking" they deserve that money, and your post is an example of that problem.
I'll go for the $15 per hour rate if you can guarantee that means more able bodied people currently collecting a check from myself and the rest of us ABLE bodied taxpayers will now be required to work for a living.
I don't recall offering any "guarantees", nor did either store. What you see is what you get.
Eh...don't go to McDonald's often. But I wouldn't mind paying $.50 or $1 more for people to make more money.
Prices are raised all the time for reasons that aren't as beneficial as this one. There are combos at Wendy's that cost $8.00 or more and people pay more at Chik-Fil-A because it is chicken cooked in peanut oil. Starbucks raised prices and they are still popular. Papa Johns said they were going to raise prices due to Obamacare. I'd rather Papa John pay his workers more and raise prices because he values his employees versus blaming Obama, but whatever he wants, I will still order his pizza if I can afford it just like I'll still go to McDonald's once or twice a year.
You are acting like the Big Mac cost the same as it did in 1987. People still buy them even though the price went up.
Which of these two identical, side-by-side McDonalds with equal quality food, service etc. would you make a habit of patronizing?
(a) The one with "normal" McDonalds prices and wages
(b) The one where each food item and drink cost $.50 to $1.00 more than "normal", and paid $15.00/hr?
You didn't think the wages that today's "strikers" are demanding, were going to come for free, did you?
Sure, I would eat at the place it cost $.50 to $1.00 more than "normal", because that's almost nothing. Also, the more expensive place may provide better service and clean better. I really despise how McDonalds places are so disgusting.
But its so dumb of them to push for $15.00/hr. That's not realistic, because why should fast food workers be paid close to the national average. Why don't they ask for $10,00 an hour or $12,00 an hour. Its not much, but certainly better than $7.25.
If I were to patronize a fast food restaurant (gross, ick, and no way), I would simply pick the one that's most conveniently located.
That's it.
It's hard to get philosophical about putting trash in your bodies.
Hell, why isn't anyone angry at these "workers" who spend their "careers" promoting and dispensing the garbage that is ruining the health of this country?
In fact, the price someone might pay is dependent on so many factors that don't just have to do with this is the value of the car that I am surprised you think it is as cut and dried as you portrayed.
Nope. I completely allowed for those mildly varying factors and even said as much in my post. The market price is composed of all the different prices all the various buyers would be willing to pay. But they're not stupid. I'm not talking about an aspirational or unique car, I'm talking about a common car. Maybe a Mazda 3 or Toyota Rav 4. How are you going to somehow get significantly more for it when other people are selling the same car, with similar mileage and condition, at between $7500 and $8500?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73
But the larger problem is that a job is not like selling a car and therefore it is a terrible analogy to how people get the income that they receive.
It's a fine analogy. Let's see if you support your contention that it's a poor analogy. Nope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73
Can they get $15 per hr who knows?
They should go try, RIGHT NOW! But it won't be in fast food. The market has long ago determined what their jobs and skills are worth. But yah, maybe they CAN get $15/hour. I encourage all of them to quit their fast food jobs today and go seek out that $15/hour job that they're qualified for given their current level of skill and education and quality. If they're worth $15/hour then it stands to reason there's a job out there with a market-determined rate of $15/hour that they're qualified for. If not, well, they're probably where they belong making what they deserve until they make themselves more marketable -- until they find someone willing to pay them $15/hour for what they have to offer. As I said before, at a forced / coerced $15/hour mimimum, a lot of these folks wouldn't have jobs at all. I would even work part-time for $15/hour. There's not much chance the average fast food worker currently pulling $8/hour (because there are no other alternatives at which they can make $15/hour right now) would be a higher quality employee than me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73
conservatives have a fundamental problem with just them "thinking" they deserve that money, and your post is an example of that problem.
I have a bit of a problem with the willful ignorance about how the world and the rest of the labor market (and inflation) works. Why do you have a problem with a market-determined wage? We have pretty rock-solid mechanisms for making yourself worth somebody paying you $15/hour (or more). We call them education, wise choices, training. I encourage everyone to explore them.
The other one is going to be full of uber conservatives complaining about Obama, health care, illegal immigrants, and Michelle. They'll be yapping about what they bought to prep for the apocalypse, talking about how wonderful Fox and Friends is. Listening to people like that is horrid for the digestion.
While I'm enjoying my frosty chocolate shake I don't want to be listening to the guy who is going to go home and yell, "Get off my lawn!"
Location: planet octupulous is nearing earths atmosphere
13,621 posts, read 12,727,347 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nepenthe
Trick question. Neither. Haven't been to that joint in decades. About twice a year I might get Arby's when they have the 4 for $5, that's about it.
But just hypothetically... The question must be asked about the quality of service, speed, food, cleanliness, cute girls, etc. I'm getting from each. If they are, as a thought experiment, IDENTICAL save for the difference in cost and wages, then as an economizing individual I will ALWAYS choose the one where I pay less money.
If there are differences in any aspect of the consumer experience then I would make a determination using algorithms known only to me as to which one I would patronize. I certainly pay more for things I perceive to be providing me greater utility (whether that utility is pleasantness, efficient speed, convenience, quality, or whatever) from time to time. My determination of that choice and the weight given to each of those aspects will likely vary from the next customer's choice, and so on.
why can't people understand these jobs are not and never were meant to be jobs for the head of the household and if people think differently they need to take a good look at those who work at these places. OK, so they need more money to live on; poor people they are, it is up to us to support them, because they are not making an effort to better themselves. Let me put it this way: We live on SS and we want more money, bigger increases because we do not get enough to live, comfortably on. I just figured out, my SS check would amount to about $5 an hour and hubby's closer to $12.00. How do you, who have so much sympathy for those poor workers feel about seeing your taxes go up, maybe $100 a month so we can get more SS? I bet none of you would be willing to pay more, because some seniors didn't prepare for retirement and have to live on these checks alone? Should we expect you to support us better, because we can't support ourselves?
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