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Some Christians feel very strongly that marriage is a holy union between a man and a woman ONLY ... and that such unions between same sex partners is contrary to their beliefs. So, yes, making a wedding cake for a same sex couple would obviously be at odds with such beliefs. You can certainly disagree with that belief, but you can't say the belief doesn't exist, or does not apply.
However, when these beliefs manifest themselves in denying others public accommodation based on ethnicity, faith, sexual orientation, and gender, they are in violation of federal, state and local anti-discrimination laws, and the equal protection clause of the US Constitution.
What does my personal psychological evaluation of people with extreme religious and political views have to do with my level of tolerance for said people? What does "tolerance" mean to you? Do you wish to be able to do and say as you please with no repercussions whatsoever? Do you wish to remain free from any and all criticism of your actions and beliefs, even if those actions and beliefs are used to support discrimination and violence toward your fellow human beings? Does anything less than absolute acceptance of your views and behaviors count as 'intolerance'? What is it you want from us, exactly? To shut up and stand idly by while watching you commit one social injustice after another and never challenge you in any way? Sorry, but that's not going to happen.
Humorously, (or perhaps sadly, I am uncertain which) your very post itself is actually a perfect example of not only the intolerance but the hypocrisy of people with far right-wing and/or extremist religious views. You demand not only the right to be as intolerant as you wish, but you also demand that we accept this implicitly! If we refuse to do so, we are being intolerant! Sorry, but I'm not buying into this, and neither is any other person with an ounce of sense. There are different types and levels of intolerance. Some people's intolerance has the capacity, and sometimes even the intent, of causing real physical, psychological, financial and social harm to innocent people. The type of intolerance I hold is intolerance for such hateful, harmful beliefs. If you don't like that, tough. We are under NO obligation whatsoever to be tolerant of your intolerance. Period.
I supported gay "marriage" here in Maryland. Your assumptions are laughable and your psychological assessments suck.
Man and woman only? For the 89th time, he made a cake for a DOG WEDDING! Why do you keep ignoring that? That's not at odds with Christian beliefs?
Give me a break!
Are you mentally deranged? The case involves two homosexual males who got married out of state (Colorado has a constitutional ban on same sex marraige). Upon return home to Colorado, the gay husband and husband wanted a cake for their reception.
WTF did you come up with this nonsense about dogs getting married ? Please ... if you've been prescribed medication .... TAKE IT!!! Good grief ... the loonies are out in force on this thread.
Yeah, and? Do you want a medal or something? I'm not saying you didn't (or couldn't have) done the right thing, but really, any decent, thinking person would (or should have) done the same. And for the record, I was not speaking of you personally, but was using "you" and "your" in the general sense. I don't know much, if anything about you, and therefore cannot rightly make any assessments about you, although your use of the word "marriage" in quotes is already suspicious.
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Your assumptions are laughable and your psychological assessments suck.
So says you. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I have more than enough experience with these types of people and enough knowledge of psychological distortions and self-protection tactics to know what I am talking about. I see it all the time, including right here on this very board.
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Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
WTF did you come up with this nonsense about dogs getting married ? Please ... if you've been prescribed medication .... TAKE IT!!! Good grief ... the loonies are out in force on this thread.
She didn't come up with it, the baker did. It was an example given to show the baker's hypocrisy in his dealings with his customers. He felt perfectly fine baking cakes for dogs, for divorces, and for many other non or even unbiblical things. The man even had tatoos on his body, which is strictly prohibited according to biblical law. It was only when those evil gays showed up that he suddenly became very religious. As is typical with these types of people.
Federal law as defined by supreme curt allows for discrimination in private sector but not in public sector. That is why we have religious symbol allowed on private property but not on public. The cake shop is private so this needs to be challenged in court and I think it will be. The court will be mandated to follow supreme court rulings which are clear on this. Religious freedom at at core of constitution as written and it has even allowed special exception to laws by individual religions as supreme court has determined religious freedom over the centuries.
Wrong, the cake shop is open to the public, so is not private.
Pedophiles and child molesters are not always the same thing. A person ATTRACTED to children is a pedophile even if they have never touched a child. There is a difference between someone who has an attraction, but has not broken any laws, and a person that has broken the law by molesting a child.
Yes, there is a minor difference .... the pedophile who has not acted on his demented urges to sexually molest children (or has not yet been caught ... and how do we know which is the case except to take the pedophile's word for it) is a sick, and irredeemable danger to society, and should be kept as far away from children as possible, and watched vigilently .... the pedophile that has been caught molesting children should be executed, and their ashes dumped in a land fill. That's the difference.
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Originally Posted by jjrose
why should someone that has broken no law be punishe
What are you referring to as "punishment", exactly? Do you really mean to suggest that mentally deranged perverts who desire to bugger little children should not be barred from employment at daycare centers filled with little targets of temptation? Is that really how your mind works?
I detected an apologetic flavor in the whole "there is a difference between pedophiles and child molesters ..." and if that be the case, you're just about as twisted as they are, and just about as dangerous to society as well.
Are you mentally deranged? The case involves two homosexual males who got married out of state (Colorado has a constitutional ban on same sex marraige). Upon return home to Colorado, the gay husband and husband wanted a cake for their reception.
WTF did you come up with this nonsense about dogs getting married ? Please ... if you've been prescribed medication .... TAKE IT!!! Good grief ... the loonies are out in force on this thread.
I suggest you take yours. Maybe you won't feel quite so embarrassed.
Just two days after the owner of a Lakewood, Colo. bakery appeared in court to defend himself against charges that he that he discriminated against a gay couple last July when he refused to bake a cake for their wedding, a civil judge found the owner guilty of unlawful discrimination.
Judge Robert Spencer of the Colorado Office of Administrative Courts announced the decision Friday, reports KDVR, noting that because the Jack Phillips, who owns Masterpiece Cakeshop, previously made cakes for the wedding of two dogs, his claims that a wedding between two men contradicted his religious beliefs didn't hold up. Colo. Bakery's Refusal to Bake Gay Wedding Cake Is Discrimination, Judge Rules | Advocate.com#
While we all agree that religious freedom is important, no one’s religious beliefs make it acceptable to break the law by discriminating against prospective customers,” said Amanda C. Goad, staff attorney with the ACLU Lesbian Gay Bisexual and Transgender Project. “No one is asking Masterpiece’s owner to change his beliefs, but treating gay people differently because of who they are is discrimination plain and simple.” The release also notes that the bakery owners have said they would provide a cake for the “marriage” of two dogs, but they’ve turned away other same-sex couples before this lawsuit. Think Progress has some excerpts from the opinion. And the opinion can be read in full here. Equality On Trial » Administrative judge rules against Colorado bakery that discriminated against same-sex couple
What's that you were saying about taking my medication?
Don't distort the lame brained assertion that the poster made "for the 89th time, it was a cake for a dog wedding!!!". That was the idiotic claim, and shows that she didn't have a clue what was even being debated ... chatising me, no less,
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Originally Posted by Lunar Delta
It was an example given to show the baker's hypocrisy in his dealings with his customers. He felt perfectly fine baking cakes for dogs, for divorces, and for many other non or even unbiblical things.
Being that I'm not a religious person, though familiar with some, but not all of the bible ... perhap you can illuminate this biblical prohibition on feeding canines. I had no idea God was not a dog lover ... particularly since dog spelled backward is god.
Nevertheless, as you contemplate that, let me expand your horizons a bit on the nature of what constitutes "hypocrisy" ... a perfect example would be the state of Colorado refusing to marry same sex couples (it is against state law, per state constitution), yet force this man to violate his religious beliefs and bake a wedding cake for a gay couple that the state considers illegal to marry. That is HYPOCRISY of the most IRONIC variety.
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Originally Posted by Lunar Delta
The man even had tatoos on his body, which is strictly prohibited according to biblical law. It was only when those evil gays showed up that he suddenly became very religious. As is typical with these types of people.
Oh my ... noes ... he didn't have tattoos. how offensive!! Of course it's perfectly fine and a glorious thing for gay men to plow each other in the backside, but those nasty tattoos are so disgusting. And you wonder why we consider liberalism a mental disorder
That said, let me clue you in on another concept that you seem to be struggling with ... "beliefs", in this case, "religious beliefs". May I suggest to you that it is HIGHLY PROBABLE that many religious people have different beliefs? Does that sound plausible to you? I would venture a guess that there are VAST differences in beliefs, one to the next, and that becomes very obvious when you consider the number of different sects within just Christianity!! You've got the Catholics, and the Baptists, and the Presbyterians, and the Lutherans, and the Mormons, and a few others! Common sense would suggest that they don't all share the same set of beliefs, else there wouldn't be the different groups. And even among those of any particular denomination, I'll bet there are differences in beliefs too. So, your insinuation that YOU can define the baker's specific beliefs is rather presumtuous, don't you think? Or, maybe you just have a list of beliefs he's allowed to have ... no picking and choosing allowed?
Listen up ... YOU DON'T GET TO DECIDE what that man's beliefs are, nor are you annointed with the authority to validate or reject them, one by one. They are his personal beliefs, and as we've already concluded, vary significantly, from person to person.
So he believes that homosexuality is contrary to his religious beliefs, and under the 1stbAmmendment, which guarantees his right to freedom of religious expression, he has a right to decide that, and opperate his business and personal affairs in accordance with his beliefs.
But, as I have repeatedly stated, my opinion is based on the principle that the state has mo right to force him to provide his labor to anyone. Every person has a fundamental right to free association, and total ownership of their time and labor.
As a side note ... there could be no prohibition on gay marraige if government stopped interferring where it has no business. Marraige should also be a personal decision between the two people planning to marry, with the state having no say in the matter, one way or the other. But you liberal statists want government involved in everything ... just another example where your own ideology haunts you. And you can't be reasoned with, no matter how many examples of self destructiveness is pointed out to you.
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is a sick, and irredeemable danger to society, and should be kept as far away from children as possible, and watched vigilently .... the pedophile that has been caught molesting children should be executed, and their ashes dumped in a land fill. That's the difference.
