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De jure and de facto can be two different things. Laws can be passed, and then law suits may be needed to get those laws enforced.
I suppose you're unware of the Freedom Riders in 1961--an attempt to ride in integrated buses to several southern cities that ended in police-supported violence. But I remember well hearing about it.
In Oklahoma, all facilities were still segregated de jure and de facto up until 1964. Schools were still segregated de facto up to 1966, and we were still marching to desegregate municipal facilities as late as 1966.
When my family traveled from Oklahoma to Florida in 1965, whenever we stopped to eat or for a bathroom break, my father would get out of the car and check the gas station or restaurant first to see if we would be allowed service. Frequently, we weren't. A couple of times, we could enter only at the rear. I recall my father mentioning in the larger cities that he was watching for a Howard Johnson restaurant--which did provide equal service to black people across the south.
Some towns were still "sundown towns" into the 70s. The last time I sat in segregated movie seating in Oklahoma was July 20, 1969, which was otherwise memorable for other events.
There were very few states that did not have at least de facto segregation, usually "enforced" by real estate sales and mortgage lending practices, as well as hiring practices. General Motors was known for discriminatory hiring practices--and even discriminatory sales practices. General Motors initially had a policy prohibiting the sales of Cadillacs to blacks...they believed it would cheapen the brand. OTHO, Ford Motor company--despite Henry Ford's virulent anti-semitism--had very open and fair labor practices with regard to race, and even made dealerships available to blacks.
In the second half of 1965, we were stationed for a while in Maywood, IL, a suburb of Chicago. It was newly integrated at that time, and I was one of two black kids in the class. Because I wore glasses, it was my custom to sit at the front. The teacher (white) immediately directed me a seat in the farthest rear corner...and never spoke to me again.
This puzzled me, because I was accustomed to being called when I raised my hand to answer a question at Carver Elementary. But this teacher refused to acknowledge me at all. I was so bored in the class that I actually cross-hatched my thumbnail with a pin and charted its growth.
But it wasn't a total loss. Being in the back corner of the room put me right next to the classroom bookcase, and it in I found a very special book, Robert A. Heinlein's "Have Space Suit-Will Travel." That started a science fiction mania that continues today. And because the protagonist in that book used a sliderule, I badgered my mother for one, then found another book that taught me how to use it--written by Isaac Asimov. I still have my last sliderule, hanging beside my desktop computer.
RK: I think we AGREE pretty much down the line on how things came down with Jim Crow biting it at the end
Never said, it NEEDED to be made. Some of it is censored today as it should be, therefore no one is "bemoaning" anything; don't confuse acknowledgement with agreement.
Although I will say that I do miss the classic satire of "Al Bundy", the George Jeffersons and Archie Bukers of those sitcoms, but I do think that it is right that some of the sly gay jokes are taken out of the works.
If you make a modern day film about American soldiers in the middle of a war zone and you were doing it from scratch, calling a black former javelin thrower by "Spearchucker" won't fly and it SHOULDN'T fly because it's unrealistic and wouldn't happen in modern times. It just wouldn't.
I have no problem with it being in MASH...I like the show. But that was then...
You said earlier that shows like that could be made today? WHy the change?
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter
Everything that was made then could me made now...including Blazing Saddles.
The chopper pilot, Marty Williams, is called as first witness, but Steele asks the African-American Williams to do “a number” first. Perplexed, Williams doesn’t know what to do or say, so Steele gets up and stuns everyone with an impromptu version of “Mississippi Mud”. With the prosecution happily singing and dancing his way across the compound, the trial comes to an abrupt end.
Your right, and neither would have Don Rickles, or a lot of other comedians. Everyone "thinks" by being politically correct, it will change things, all it does is force people to not make those kind of comments...which causes even more resentment. The world has changed, big time, years ago, people were able to laugh, laugh at themselves....and at others and not be so all fired serious. It is a shame...what this world has come to...really a shame. And young people don't have a clue, not all, but most....when it comes to even more serious issues, like compassion for others, respect for the property and personal space of otheres....and I could go on and on.
I can only laugh at this thread - MASH would never have had any chance at all of being made even a few years before it was. The gross insubordination and contempt of major characters (sympathetic, to varying degrees) for the military, the rampant insinuation of extramarital sex, the profanity, etc - all no-gos just a few years prior.
And 95% of what's on today would have been unacceptable in the relatively uptight climate of the 1970s.
It's amazing, the willful ignorance of those who think speech codes (or 'PC', for those who get their information from Glen Beck and Sean Hannity) haven't always been around and weren't far more pervasive in the past.
The chopper pilot, Marty Williams, is called as first witness, but Steele asks the African-American Williams to do “a number” first. Perplexed, Williams doesn’t know what to do or say, so Steele gets up and stuns everyone with an impromptu version of “Mississippi Mud”. With the prosecution happily singing and dancing his way across the compound, the trial comes to an abrupt end.
You said earlier that shows like that could be made today? WHy the change?
Nuance. You have a problem with it.
I've said that SOME things won't fly. Could you do the show? Of course. Could you have a black character named Spearchucker? No. And you shouldn't be able to. I know that bothers you, but that's the way it is.
Can YOU call a black man Spearchucker these days? Hell no you couldn't and you damn well know you'd better not. That's reflection of the changes in society.
Like I told the other poster, you guys aren't really mad about the supposed inability to make these shows. You're just mad because you didn't get to inherit your father's world.
I'd say that MASH is light comedy compared to how even on television. MASH just really expanded catch 22 in war time humor. What society rejected was basically the hateful treatment and neglect of those returning from Vietnam by segment of society without being immediately condemned by others.
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