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Leave it to the far left radical leftists on this forum to use a fabricated "rape culture" in America to deflect away from the topic at hand, which is that of a strong, principled woman standing up for what she believes in.
Please enlighten me with examples were families are passing down and teaching their children to rape? There maybe a rape culture in prison, but not in the rest of the country.
How exactly are you getting what you wrote above from this: "Using rape as a descriptive of culture suggests a patter of learned behavior created, organized, and transmitted from generation to generation as part of the expectations with being male and being female."
Perhaps you should look at the other link I posted earlier. Might help you begin to correct your current misunderstanding of "rape culture." Oh heck, I'll even repost it for you:
It's a beginner's guide (big time), so it should help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoniDanko
The mere fact that the some men/women are rapist does not make it a culture nor have you all pointed out a group of related people who all share the thoughts that rape is okay... Pointing out isolated examples does not prove that theirs a "culture of raping women" in America...
Oh good lord. An everyday dictionary definition of "culture." And here I had issues with using the The Concise Encyclopedia of Sociology.
Last edited by helenejen; 06-10-2014 at 01:06 PM..
Many feminists have long argued the benefits of self defense education. But the root of the problem is still systemic violence against women, which shouldn't be overlooked. You can read more at FEMINIST.COM:
"Just as there is no one right way to respond to violence committed against us, there is no right way to defend ourselves. And, as much as self- defense may help in certain situations, the most important step in ending violence against women is to stop men from being violent and from allowing others to be violent." DEFENDING OURSELVES AGAINST VIOLENCE
Pardon me, but, you're going to need to explain a couple things for me. "Stop men from being violent". How do you propose to stop a man with a rape desire? Most men find the very idea of rape repugnant. Rapists are an anomaly. Something is shorted out in their brains. They are evil. You CAN'T overcome that predilection in them with "education". They are animals, acting on instinct and urge, with a human brain to plan with.
I will agree, to a point, about your "no right way to defend yourselves" statement. Even a successful defense against an attempted rape is traumatic. However, it beats submission. As I said, this is highly personal for me. Rapists disgust me beyond words, and doing violence upon them means no more to me than killing a fly. What they do is evil. They know it, they revel in it, there is no "fixing" them. There is no "fixing" men. MEN need no fixing. A rapist is not a MAN. No man could possibly desire to put a woman through that. I cannot describe how it feels to see a woman , one you love beyond measure, after a rape assault. Even though she stopped it. The fear, the spill of raw emotion is overwhelming.
Then, having to relive it, police statements, court, counselors, therapy. My God! The only way the animal who attacked her could be stopped was lethal force. Which she used, though he did not die. There was no preemptive measure that would have stopped him, other than incarceration or death, either. He will never do this again, but the fear still holds on to her. Maybe be has friends what if what if. The thought of her being attacked again haunts my dreams. What she is going through goes without say.
No ma'am, this is not an issue of educating all males about the wrongs and evil of rape. MEN know that. Rapists don't care. They are a vermin that needs eradicating. I'd settle for a good start of making them an endangered species, hunted wherever they go. That maggot infested corpse has ruined our lives. I may lose her yet, because of what he did. I guess that all men pay for the actions of these scum in the end. In one way or another.
Wow!
What is wrong with women learning to defend themselves?
Yeah women shouldn't need to protect themselves from rape.
I also shouldn't have to lock my door at night because people shouldn't burglarize homes.
I shouldn't have to avoid bad neighborhoods because people shouldn't mug other people.
There are a lot of things we SHOULDN'T have to do but we do them because that's the way the world is
unfortunately.
What do you think has better odds of success…
We rehabilitate or "teach" all of the violent men in the world who would rape a woman to change their ways or we teach women how to defend themselves and how to avoid becoming a victim of rape?
Its wrong for women to learn to defend themselves because men shouldn't rape?
I guess we no longer need the police or laws either because people shouldn't commit crimes.
I sometimes wonder if feminists are women's worst enemy.
Wow.
Feminists make rape a political issue. Keeping that issue alive relies on women being completely helpless victims.
It's like this:
Announcement: John's car got stolen
Reaction: Wow, poor John, that's really sad
Announcement: John's car got stolen after he left the keys in the ignition and the door unlocked
Reaction: Well that's too bad but it was pretty stupid of John to do that
Despite the fact that the exact same crime was committed against John in both situations, the level of sympathy goes way down when it is shown that John didn't do something he could have done to prevent it. Feminists need the sympathy for rape to be as high as possible so they can get as much mileage out of it as possible. I know that sounds cynical and callous, but it is what it is. It isn't uncommon for crusaders for a cause to end up exploiting the very people they are trying to help. You see starving children in Africa or South America with pleas for donations, and then find the people running the charity keeping over half the contributions for themselves. Al Gore warns about the dangers of global warming and makes millions in pure profit off of the carbon credits that he sells. The Violence Against Women Act produces billions of dollars a year, and it is the interest of the people receiving that money to keep the sympathy factor for rape as high as they possibly can.
Of course pro-feminists are going to immediately dismiss this as ridiculous, but I would point them to the ROKS feminist organization in Sweden, devoted to dealing with domestic violence. When Sweden sent social scientists to Norway to investigate the domestic violence treatment program that was reported to be 70% effective, ROKS successfully lobbied against implementing it in Sweden. Why? Because the program including counseling for men. This implied that the men were mentally ill and treatable rather than that they were simply inherently violent brutes. So an organization devoted to reducing domestic violence actually went against a proven method of doing exactly that, because implementing the program would go against their political agenda.
"Many pioneering feminists disappeared into Swedish universities, where they transformed our struggle into 'scientific knowledge', and became elite feminists. They got money from the State, as universities in Sweden are publicly funded. Instead of talking about 'the sexes' they started talking about 'genders', and the struggle no longer focused on transforming the state apparatus: it switched to targeting the male sex and men as sexual creatures. The present totalitarian gender ideology was also promoted by the Swedish media, which does what is required from it by the State."
and
"But the bloodthirsty media forces initiated a hunt without checking the facts of the case and without waiting for a trial. Instead, the media became judge and jury because the politically correct approach in today’s Sweden is that women are always victims and are blameless when it comes to sex."
That is exactly the same reasoning for feminists here to oppose educating women on ways of preventing rape. Putting any sort of power in the hands of women would also put responsibility in their hands as well, and that would go against feminist ideology. They have turned "taking sensible precautions" into "blaming the victim."
Wow!
What is wrong with women learning to defend themselves?
Not a single thing wrong with women learning self defense. I'm of the opinion that all fathers should teach their daughters some moves that would be effective in close quarters. Which is what I did with my daughter and my stepdaughter, who put it to effective use once.
That said, reading the "leftist feminist" responses in the link gives me the impression that the publication is merely promoting an agenda. The feminists aren't saying that women shouldn't learn to defend themselves. Their point is that female self-defense is not the answer to the rape problem. And they're right.
The solution is for rapists to stop assaulting women.
Not a single thing wrong with women learning self defense. I'm of the opinion that all fathers should teach their daughters some moves that would be effective in close quarters. Which is what I did with my daughter and my stepdaughter, who put it to effective use once.
That said, reading the "leftist feminist" responses in the link gives me the impression that the publication is merely promoting an agenda. The feminists aren't saying that women shouldn't learn to defend themselves. Their point is that female self-defense is not the answer to the rape problem. And they're right.
The solution is for rapists to stop assaulting women.
In short, there is no answer. Your last sentence is a bit of an oxymoron. Rapists assault women. It's what they do. How do you propose to make them stop, short of death or incarceration? You can't. When incarcerated, rapists assault other men. They come out of prison worse than when they went in. They should never again see the outside world. But they do. And they escalate. Rape occurs in women's prisons as well. All the time. Its not totally unique to males. Women participate in rape with a male partner. Males and females rape children.
No matter the form or the perpetrator, rape is a hideous crime. No rapist can claim they didn't know rape is a crime. That's carrying and ignorance of the law defense just a bit far. Given opportunity, a rapist WILL rape. It can't be stopped with edu action or phycology. It is not a culture, save among other rapists, and is more equatable to a pack mentality than a culture.
So, the solution is for rapists to stop raping. Ummm...yea. The suction to murder is for murderers to stop murdering and robbers to stop robbing too. But they won't, unless someone stops them. That usually means by violent ends.
okay, that certainly excludes the United States of America:
Guess you didn't bother to read the link, given that all the examples were from the U.S.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber
Pardon me, but, you're going to need to explain a couple things for me. "Stop men from being violent". How do you propose to stop a man with a rape desire?
The article from which I quoted was about violence against women generally. I used it to rebut the fact that some erroneously believe that feminists are against self-defense. Totally untrue.
As the rest of your post, I hope both you and the woman about whom you were writing are getting counseling. It can really help. Wishing you both the best.
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