Breaking: Eleven killed at French magazine, Muslim terrorists suspected (war, liberal, thought)

[texdav]

They should be marching in streets around the world. There certainly was no lack of celebrating as video taped on 9-11. what is said versus what is clearly seen as always.

[DC at the Ridge]

Originally Posted by texdav

They should be marching in streets around the world. There certainly was no lack of celebrating as video taped on 9-11. what is said versus what is clearly seen as always.

There are well over a billion Muslims on this planet. Who exactly are you to tell others how they should react to a tragedy? Why should billions of people take to marching in streets? I'm sure a significant number of the people who did take to the streets, in Paris, in London, around the world, were Muslims.

And Muslims spoke to the press, around the world, about their disgust and horror over what happened. Did you march in the streets after OKC?

[Pruzhany]

A 2004 Video Shows Paris Shooting Suspect Talking About Being Radicalized - Business Insider

[vvega]

Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge

I'm sure a significant number of the people who did take to the streets, in Paris, in London, around the world, were Muslims.

And I'm sure there were none.

And Muslims spoke to the press, around the world, about their disgust and horror over what happened. Did you march in the streets after OKC?

Yes, they did, to the Western press, but never to the Arabic, Turkish, Iranian etc. press. Erdogan in Turkey also "spoke about disgust", just 3 months after releasing an islamic militant who tried to murder a Danish journalist who criticized terrorists.

[DC at the Ridge]

Originally Posted by vvega

And I'm sure there were none.



Yes, they did, to the Western press, but never to the Arabic, Turkish, Iranian etc. press. Erdogan in Turkey also "spoke about disgust", just 3 months after releasing an islamic militant who tried to murder a Danish journalist who criticized terrorists.

Clearly you're irrational.

Because there is no way you can be sure there were no Muslims attending the many events around the world honoring the victims of this senseless tragedy.

[vvega]

Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge

Clearly you're irrational.

Because there is no way you can be sure there were no Muslims attending the many events around the world honoring the victims of this senseless tragedy.

I'll believe it when I see one.

[jacqueg]

Originally Posted by LS Jaun

"The stupid fools killed a fellow muslim."
They have been doing that since the religion was formed. Sunni Kill Shia, Sunni Kill Kurd Muslim, Boka Haram Kill competing Muslims, Muslims Kill Apostates. They probably kill more fellow Muslims than non-Muslims.

I think you're right about that.

[personne]

So much ignorance I read on this post, it makes me want to cry more.

But I won't.

I'll just let facts talk and people who can take them in and think will and i feel certain many will, others will keep on with their views and not try to understand and change anything.

I'm French. Born from a French -atheist- father and an American mother (daughter of baptists preachers generations on).

Avid reader of Charlie Hebdo from the year when they managed to publish again that is 1992, never missed an edition in all those years and never subscribed since I knew they needed the money (subscribing helps to manage numbers of printing and it is thus cheaper but I figured I bought it anyway, my way to help) How many nationwilde journals do you know that never ever relies on advertising, thus might tell the truh with no financial pressure + make you laugh ? we had two, only one now.

For interested people, it was first Hara-Kiri, they were censored after General de Gaulle's death. He died in his home country in a small town named Colombey, the same week-end, a night club got in fire and lots of dead people... they titled "Tragic ball night in Colombey : one dead". It was a time (pre-1968) where every news was validated by the government the mourn for de gaulle was so long it felt (to them) disrespectful to ignore all the others who died the same day. They did it as always in a corrisive humour.

Censored and banished.

The next week, they began again (same team) and called it charlie hebdo, as a reference to de Gaulle (and also Charlie Brown )




You can look up the rest of the history of the journal if you wish to.

Charb (chief redactor and talented drawer) had ben under protection from police since the threats of death came by hundreds evey day after this drawing:


The ones that intitiated the first attack :

first : 100 whiplash if you don't die of laughter"

second : Mahomet overworked by fundamentalist ; bubble "it's hard to be love by as***es".

Imagine what being under police protection 24/24 can do to the life of an individual who always worked for a loving word and peaceful and most importantly spent his life arguing against all kinds of powers -mostly religious and political - that try to prevent on others, and of course police men when abusing their citizen-given power.

One thing he said when asked if he feared for his life after the first attack : "I don't have a wife, I don't have kids, it sounds pompous but I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees"

Here's his last picture on tweeter, minutes before the attack :



(headline :still no attack in France? bubbles "wait, one can still wish a new year till the end of jnuary")

Some of my favorites are those :




'Love, stronger than hate"



All religions belong in the toilet. (this one has actually ornated my half bathroom for many years now). Responding to a scandal initiated by christans after a simple theater play.

I'm not even menionning all the great journalists and cartoonists... It would be too long and my post is too long already.

So comparing that with "muslim pilosophy" or "gun control" is stupid.

It is NOT an attack on France, altough it is an attack on part of its culture : irreverency, freedom(that means from religion in the public place, do and think whatever you want in private, and feel free to "provoke, even if only for satire).

What it is is an attack on a whole civilization (yours, ours and many others some of you would consider "ignorant and fools" - remember the name of the very courageous young girl, nobel prize 2015?) by a few individuals or the recent shooting of children in shools!

The difference with war as we "used to know/mostly learned from books" it is that there is no identified ennemy as in a country. Now it's forcing itself in again, in a new form : using lost "empty" individuals (in the sense of culture) to make another kind of war in the name of a vastly wider system. Which, as generations before us, we will have to deal with. Wars always changed. Body fight, first weapons, superior ones, planes, missiles, drones ans so on. What do those do againt someone who doesnt care if they are willing/wishing to die for what they belive in ?

Terrorism can't be fought other than by intelligence, culture and education and that will take longer than our whole lives. But I do believe it's possible. But that of course doesn't apply to "revenge" type of people. It took us(in France) 200 years+ to get rid of catholic church influence on politics which doesn't mean those values aren't still culturally present, it's just there with no real part (except for a few, and good for them if that's what they need or want as long as it doesn't partipipate in the national poitical debate).

We don't have a same system as you and I admire what the us constitution, even if slow in application, can do for years to come for gay marriage and many other subjects.

People from every country go out and train to come back and act on their own soil. How do you fight that? The "ennemy" is not identified.

This is the most deadly attack France has has in more than 50 years. USA has a rate of mass killing of about one per month country wide: Study: The U.S. has had one mass shooting per month since 2009 - The Washington Post (one source among many others)

That's my response to gun-lovers.

My response to saying islamist always are the cause of violence is that you seem to care only about the degree of violence inflicted on someone. Christianity causes violence everyday also. Less murderous, ok, in these days at least, but not so far back, bombing abortiong clinics wasn't exactly peaceful, was it? How many so called christians marched against it and now against every day protests with fear tactics outside clinics?

Charlie also attacked christianity and were threatened and sued many time for it :




"Sorry, guy, God made me an atheist, you have to respect his wish"




"Monseigneur 23 has 3 dads : father, christ and holy spirit"



Headline : Pope goes too far ! bubble "this is my body"


Catholics change pope! But still no new underwear!



Lions refuse to eat Christians, bubble "they taste like mcdonald's"


The thing is that,yesterday night and tonight, in a town renowned (sadly) for far extremist right voters (they'd be mild for most conservtives in your place), there was an enormous amount of peopleof all ages, colors, religions, marching with sign "I'm Charlie", and feeling together, not fearing.

We may not do the same thing you do, and we may noy be right. But please, understand this.

What happened wasn't about gun control or about muslims.

It's about one of the greatest difficulty our (and the next, at least) century will have to fight. Not eradicate islam (nor chritianity or any other dogmatisms that helps mould weak minds into fanatics) because people should have the right to believe what they want, as long as they don't force anyone to think or believe the same.

Terrorists can't be made war at. They are individuals, in the name of a war and instrumented by organizations that have much bigger interests.

This attack was not on France or the number of muslims there (althgouh there are problems, yes, but more societal than religious I think, extreme religion is a haven for people who have neither education nor hope to get it)

This attack was on the very chore of liberty expression and freedom to laugh about the most tragic things. That's what differenciates a "rationnal" human being : ie accepting being carricatured and a fundamentalist : ie offended by anything that might mock his belief.

And that concerns everyone, whether we agree or not, whether in Occident or any other part of the world.

I wanted a short post and couldn't. Still much more to add...

But then, one has to stop.

Good night (1.5am here and working early tomorrow)

I am Charlie, you are Charlie, we all are Charlie. It's not a french event as much as it is an attack on freedom of expression,however we might feel about the way it is done.

I'll now go to sleep mourning for my fellow "paper" old friends but also for something much bigger than that terrible loss. Freedom of laughing at everyone and everything that takes themselves too seriouly. And an attack on all blogguers, journalists and carricaturists emprisonned or threatened to be all over the world.

Not the place to, but I've worked all day establishing official partnership with RSF (reporters without borders) for helping with my business (no money made, all reversed to the NGO) anyone wishing to know more can pm me.

Peace and love.

[RVAtoCNC]

Originally Posted by personne

So much ignorance I read on this post, it makes me want to cry more.

But I won't.

I'll just let facts talk and people who can take them in and think will and i feel certain many will, others will keep on with their views and not try to understand and change anything.

I'm French. Born from a French -atheist- father and an American mother (daughter of baptists preachers generations on).

Avid reader of Charlie Hebdo from the year when they managed to publish again that is 1992, never missed an edition in all those years and never subscribed since I knew they needed the money (subscribing helps to manage numbers of printing and it is thus cheaper but I figured I bought it anyway, my way to help) How many nationwilde journals do you know that never ever relies on advertising, thus might tell the truh with no financial pressure + make you laugh ? we had two, only one now.

For interested people, it was first Hara-Kiri, they were censored after General de Gaulle's death. He died in his home country in a small town named Colombey, the same week-end, a night club got in fire and lots of dead people... they titled "Tragic ball night in Colombey : one dead". It was a time (pre-1968) where every news was validated by the government the mourn for de gaulle was so long it felt (to them) disrespectful to ignore all the others who died the same day. They did it as always in a corrisive humour.

Censored and banished.

The next week, they began again (same team) and called it charlie hebdo, as a reference to de Gaulle (and also Charlie Brown )




You can look up the rest of the history of the journal if you wish to.

Charb (chief redactor and talented drawer) had ben under protection from police since the threats of death came by hundreds evey day after this drawing:


The ones that intitiated the first attack :

first : 100 whiplash if you don't die of laughter"

second : Mahomet overworked by fundamentalist ; bubble "it's hard to be love by as***es".

Imagine what being under police protection 24/24 can do to the life of an individual who always worked for a loving word and peaceful and most importantly spent his life arguing against all kinds of powers -mostly religious and political - that try to prevent on others, and of course police men when abusing their citizen-given power.

One thing he said when asked if he feared for his life after the first attack : "I don't have a wife, I don't have kids, it sounds pompous but I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees"

Here's his last picture on tweeter, minutes before the attack :



(headline :still no attack in France? bubbles "wait, one can still wish a new year till the end of jnuary")

Some of my favorites are those :




'Love, stronger than hate"



All religions belong in the toilet. (this one has actually ornated my half bathroom for many years now). Responding to a scandal initiated by christans after a simple theater play.

I'm not even menionning all the great journalists and cartoonists... It would be too long and my post is too long already.

So comparing that with "muslim pilosophy" or "gun control" is stupid.

It is NOT an attack on France, altough it is an attack on part of its culture : irreverency, freedom(that means from religion in the public place, do and think whatever you want in private, and feel free to "provoke, even if only for satire).

What it is is an attack on a whole civilization (yours, ours and many others some of you would consider "ignorant and fools" - remember the name of the very courageous young girl, nobel prize 2015?) by a few individuals or the recent shooting of children in shools!

The difference with war as we "used to know/mostly learned from books" it is that there is no identified ennemy as in a country. Now it's forcing itself in again, in a new form : using lost "empty" individuals (in the sense of culture) to make another kind of war in the name of a vastly wider system. Which, as generations before us, we will have to deal with. Wars always changed. Body fight, first weapons, superior ones, planes, missiles, drones ans so on. What do those do againt someone who doesnt care if they are willing/wishing to die for what they belive in ?

Terrorism can't be fought other than by intelligence, culture and education and that will take longer than our whole lives. But I do believe it's possible. But that of course doesn't apply to "revenge" type of people. It took us(in France) 200 years+ to get rid of catholic church influence on politics which doesn't mean those values aren't still culturally present, it's just there with no real part (except for a few, and good for them if that's what they need or want as long as it doesn't partipipate in the national poitical debate).

We don't have a same system as you and I admire what the us constitution, even if slow in application, can do for years to come for gay marriage and many other subjects.

People from every country go out and train to come back and act on their own soil. How do you fight that? The "ennemy" is not identified.

This is the most deadly attack France has has in more than 50 years. USA has a rate of mass killing of about one per month country wide: Study: The U.S. has had one mass shooting per month since 2009 - The Washington Post (one source among many others)

That's my response to gun-lovers.

My response to saying islamist always are the cause of violence is that you seem to care only about the degree of violence inflicted on someone. Christianity causes violence everyday also. Less murderous, ok, in these days at least, but not so far back, bombing abortiong clinics wasn't exactly peaceful, was it? How many so called christians marched against it and now against every day protests with fear tactics outside clinics?

Charlie also attacked christianity and were threatened and sued many time for it :




"Sorry, guy, God made me an atheist, you have to respect his wish"




"Monseigneur 23 has 3 dads : father, christ and holy spirit"



Headline : Pope goes too far ! bubble "this is my body"


Catholics change pope! But still no new underwear!



Lions refuse to eat Christians, bubble "they taste like mcdonald's"


The thing is that,yesterday night and tonight, in a town renowned (sadly) for far extremist right voters (they'd be mild for most conservtives in your place), there was an enormous amount of peopleof all ages, colors, religions, marching with sign "I'm Charlie", and feeling together, not fearing.

We may not do the same thing you do, and we may noy be right. But please, understand this.

What happened wasn't about gun control or about muslims.

It's about one of the greatest difficulty our (and the next, at least) century will have to fight. Not eradicate islam (nor chritianity or any other dogmatisms that helps mould weak minds into fanatics) because people should have the right to believe what they want, as long as they don't force anyone to think or believe the same.

Terrorists can't be made war at. They are individuals, in the name of a war and instrumented by organizations that have much bigger interests.

This attack was not on France or the number of muslims there (althgouh there are problems, yes, but more societal than religious I think, extreme religion is a haven for people who have neither education nor hope to get it)

This attack was on the very chore of liberty expression and freedom to laugh about the most tragic things. That's what differenciates a "rationnal" human being : ie accepting being carricatured and a fundamentalist : ie offended by anything that might mock his belief.

And that concerns everyone, whether we agree or not, whether in Occident or any other part of the world.

I wanted a short post and couldn't. Still much more to add...

But then, one has to stop.

Good night (1.5am here and working early tomorrow)

I am Charlie, you are Charlie, we all are Charlie. It's not a french event as much as it is an attack on freedom of expression,however we might feel about the way it is done.

I'll now go to sleep mourning for my fellow "paper" old friends but also for something much bigger than that terrible loss. Freedom of laughing at everyone and everything that takes themselves too seriouly. And an attack on all blogguers, journalists and carricaturists emprisonned or threatened to be all over the world.

Not the place to, but I've worked all day establishing official partnership with RSF (reporters without borders) for helping with my business (no money made, all reversed to the NGO) anyone wishing to know more can pm me.

Peace and love.

Your atheist kin - you know - Joe Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and Hitler (he sure wasn't a Christian or Muslim - perhaps a spiritualist of some sort?) have killed tens of millions in the past century, not even in war - but through execution, starvation and imprisonment. Keep that in mind as you preach against religion

[ellemint]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SHABAZZ310 View Post
Does France have a political interest group that is similar to the American Republican over there?
I would imagine they do, but I'm not familiar with the political landscape there.

Originally Posted by Old Gringo

I would imagine they do, but I'm not familiar with the political landscape there.

France has a far-right party called the National Front that won its first Senate seats in 2014. It is strongly anti-immigration.

The thing is, with their actions, these terrorists have only added converts to the National Front, and have also made things worse for all of the peaceable Muslims living in France who already apparently face problems with lack of acceptance and discrimination.