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Old 06-02-2008, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Wallace, Idaho
3,352 posts, read 6,663,974 times
Reputation: 3590

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Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
The framers clearly associated bearing arms with the necessity of a well trained militia, the details of what they had in mind are about as clear as mud.
The grammar is clear. The opening is an absolute phrase that modifies the rest of the sentence. In other words, "the people" ARE the "well-regulated militia."
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Old 06-02-2008, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Wallace, Idaho
3,352 posts, read 6,663,974 times
Reputation: 3590
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
I'm not advocating the stripping of any rights, I'm just saying the association of arms with a militia in the Constitution makes it far from clear what the original intention was.
"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Seems clear enough to me.
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Old 06-02-2008, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Wallace, Idaho
3,352 posts, read 6,663,974 times
Reputation: 3590
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
Taken literally and ignoring the association to a "well regulated militia" it would seem the Second Amendment gives any nut-job in the country the right to own a garage full of shoulder fired missiles. It's the inclusion of "well regulated militia" that muddies the water.
The First Amendment gives nutjobs the right to spew hate and filth, too. People go nuts, as they rightly should, when you suggest limitations on free speech. The Second Amendment is no different. You don't take rights away because a few people misuse them.

The water isn't muddied at all. In modern parlance, the amendment means: "Because a well-regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state, the people's right to bear arms shall not be infringed." The people are the "well-regulated militia."
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Old 06-02-2008, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,922 posts, read 8,067,914 times
Reputation: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Knocker View Post
No, I mean leave. Why stay if you dont like the laws?

Montana is not talking of leaving because they dont like it here, only because of contract violations. You on the other hand dont believe in American law.
I like the laws. We have about the right balance in statutes in the District, but need to keep up our efforts at enforcement and in eliminating some of the crushing poverty, which leads to crime.
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Old 06-02-2008, 05:58 PM
 
Location: In a house
5,232 posts, read 8,416,920 times
Reputation: 2583
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
I like the laws. We have about the right balance in statutes in the District, but need to keep up our efforts at enforcement and in eliminating some of the crushing poverty, which leads to crime.

If you think you have the right ballance then why do you think you may have to change, even slightly, to conform to the constitution?
Poverty doesn't lead to crime. Easy targets do.
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Old 06-03-2008, 10:06 AM
 
Location: PA
5,562 posts, read 5,683,672 times
Reputation: 1962
Montano it's time for a REVOLT


YouTube - Ron Paul Convention Revolt
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Old 06-03-2008, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Lakes & Mountains of East TN
3,454 posts, read 7,410,714 times
Reputation: 882
He's a little annoying but "revolting" is a strong word...
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Old 06-03-2008, 05:45 PM
 
358 posts, read 518,501 times
Reputation: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudcommando View Post
A fantasy. No state will ever secede ever again, well that is unless they want the army to beat them into submission.


very true, but it is not only the state that shall lose, the federales would also lose.

do not count your chickens before they hatch, you liberal boys have to rely on others to do your dirty work.
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Old 06-03-2008, 05:49 PM
 
358 posts, read 518,501 times
Reputation: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaipur View Post
Montana will not be that large of a loss if it does leave any way, it has a low population and is pretty desolate. But it will never happen.

very true, unless ND, SD, Wyoming, Idaho and maybe a few other go along, then there will be alot that you will be going without.
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Old 06-06-2008, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,663,996 times
Reputation: 11084
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Knocker View Post
Fact is, if they obey orders against the nation they swear to defend, theyre the traitors. We had one revolution so far, if another ones in the future so be it. Kinda stupid to think it wont happen.

The military wants people that jusy obey orders. That works good over seas. I'd bet money it wont work right here against Americans on a big scale.
Waco & Ruby Ridge mightta been litmuses for it.
You forget Kent State.
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