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It seems like you're saying insurance should not be a part of healthcare. Though there is a place for insurance even in socialized healthcare countries - the gov't plan does not usually cover the catastrophic issues, or at least satisfactorily.
There should be no middle man insurance companies making medical decisions for people which are based solely on their profit margin.
What do insurance companies add to medical care? Absolutely nothing. All they do is drive up the costs and suck people dry so their executives can make multi-million dollar salaries and bonuses. And this new GOP plan would give even bigger tax incentives to the insurance execs, all while cutting benefits to constituents.
Tell us, Conservatives, how does giving bigger tax benefits to insurance executives help to keep the cost of healthcare down? It doesn't. But it's a nice boon to the insurance lobbies, who effectively own Congress.
There should be no middle man insurance companies making medical decisions for people which are based solely on their profit margin.
What do insurance companies add to medical care? Absolutely nothing. All they do is drive up the costs and suck people dry so their executives can make multi-million dollar salaries and bonuses. And this new GOP plan would give even bigger tax incentives to the insurance execs, all while cutting benefits to constituents.
Tell us, Conservatives, how does giving bigger tax benefits to insurance executives help to keep the cost of healthcare down? It doesn't. But it's a nice boon to the insurance lobbies, who effectively own Congress.
So you want providers and nurses handling things like paperwork, billing, figuring out regulations, managing plans and claim issues for major employer plans, and all of the administrative/operational things that you seem to think happen in a magic vacuum. I'm sure the quality of health care would be fantastic if we bogged down providers with all of that extra work.
That is if people can afford to pay the pre-existing condition rider. It also rolls back the pre-existing condition mandate. This means even asthma and being a woman are pre-existing conditions again and can get discriminated in the marketplace.
Yep. That's why I think we will all get screwed in the long run. Eventually, we'll all have pre-existing conditions and will require new insurance. It's a non-starter policy.
I'm just pointing out that in the socialized healthcare countries that are frequently mentioned, there is still an insurance market for what the state health plan doesn't cover. You can say "healthcare should be universal" but then you have to ask "how much would it cover." no state health plan covers EVERYTHING and especially with the speed sometimes required. I don't bring this up as an argument against universal healthcare; it's just a point to consider that, no, insurance companies are not gonna go away if we were to go that route.
Yep. That's why I think we will all get screwed in the long run. Eventually, we'll all have pre-existing conditions and will require new insurance. It's a non-starter policy.
Yet people believe this works. The only fix is universal healthcare. To cover the bases, make it cover what I have now on my employer plan, I think it is 5,000 out of pocket for outside network practices and hospitals. Granted under UHI, this would be a thing of the past.
So you want providers and nurses handling things like paperwork, billing, figuring out regulations, managing plans and claim issues for major employer plans, and all of the administrative/operational things that you seem to think happen in a magic vacuum. I'm sure the quality of health care would be fantastic if we bogged down providers with all of that extra work.
Who do you think handles Medicaid and Medicare paperwork right now? Here's a hint--it ain't the insurance companies. All the paperwork you speak of is CREATED by the insurance companies. Take them out of the equation and all their crap goes with them.
Who do you think handles Medicaid and Medicare paperwork right now? Here's a hint--it ain't the insurance companies. All the paperwork you speak of is CREATED by the insurance companies. Take them out of the equation and all their crap goes with them.
Right...because Medicaid and Medicare paperwork is the only paperwork required, totally makes sense. I like how you completely ignored the multiple other items I pointed out. And to take things a step further, a ton of additional work is created by government regulations that the insurance providers have to be bogged down with. Trying to paint the insurance providers as the only bad actor and with 100% malicious intent is just shedding light on your inability to separate your political biases from the reality of how business, innovation, and the world as a whole works.
Right...because Medicaid and Medicare paperwork is the only paperwork required, totally makes sense.
If you take out the worthless middle man insurance company, then yes, the government paperwork would be the only thing required. And Medicaid and Medicare have been around for decades. The system is already set up and functioning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by t206
I like how you completely ignored the multiple other items I pointed out. And to take things a step further, a ton of additional work is created by government regulations that the insurance providers have to be bogged down with.
But with insurance providers out of the picture, they won't be "bogged down" with anything because they will no longer be there. And again, Medicaid and Medicare have been in place, and dealing with government regulations, for decades already and they handle it just fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by t206
Trying to paint the insurance providers as the only bad actor and with 100% malicious intent is just shedding light on your inability to separate your political biases from the reality of how business, innovation, and the world as a whole works.
That's the whole point. Healthcare should not be a business. Tell me, what benefits do insurance companies actually provide to a patient? All they do is drive up costs and attempt to prevent people from getting the care their doctors believe they need if said care would cost the insurance company to lose some profits.
Ryan's plan would give even bigger tax benefits to the insurance executive CEOs. I note you didn't address that. Tell us how that helps keep costs down?
Yeah, it doesn't. But it's a nice little perk to the greedy insurance executives. You know, the business side of healthcare.
If you take out the worthless middle man insurance company, then yes, the government paperwork would be the only thing required. And Medicaid and Medicare have been around for decades. The system is already set up and functioning.
But with insurance providers out of the picture, they won't be "bogged down" with anything because they will no longer be there. And again, Medicaid and Medicare have been in place, and dealing with government regulations, for decades already and they handle it just fine.
That's the whole point. Healthcare should not be a business. Tell me, what benefits do insurance companies actually provide to a patient? All they do is drive up costs and attempt to prevent people from getting the care their doctors believe they need if said care would cost the insurance company to lose some profits.
Ryan's plan would give even bigger tax benefits to the insurance executive CEOs. I note you didn't address that. Tell us how that helps keep costs down?
Yeah, it doesn't. But it's a nice little perk to the greedy insurance executives. You know, the business side of healthcare.
I'm not in the business of refuting claims about things I don't support, why would I respond to it.
Instead I've chosen to respond to your absolute lack of understanding that insurance companies arent the only issue with our health care system, and they do in fact provide value, but your are on a politically driven rant that blinds you from those simple realities so its really not worth even trying to debate those facts with you. You want your free health care, I get it, just don't expect me to want to pay for you or to want to see 2-3 million people put out of work and some benefits get trashed just because you don't like the current POTUS. Its all so silly. Health care and education....two of the most ridiculously expensive and ineffective "products" that we as consumer need, but get more and more out of reach every day. Whats the biggest thing they have in common? Over-regulation from the government, and an almost complete detachment from the free market.
Some of this is indeed splitting hairs. Physicians should make a good wage. I have zero problem with that. No part of health care should be a part of the markets that people can invest and "profit" from.
IMO there has to be a happy medium.
If there is no profit motive, access and service goes to hell. There will be many more patient complaints.
Sensible profits, not windfalls.
Our hospital was sold to another hospital management company in '96, all for the bad. Bad for the docs, and bad for the patients and staff. They were too profit oriented. It was resold about 10 years later, as we docs and the community drove them off. The new owners were the best of blends. Good enough profits, along with a generally satisfied staff, community and docs.
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To cover the bases, make it cover what I have now on my employer plan, I think it is 5,000 out of pocket for outside network practices and hospitals. Granted under UHI, this would be a thing of the past.
Take them out of the equation and all their crap goes with them.
