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Maybe there is a reason no developed nation on earth has a free market healthcare market. Have you thought about that?
maybe Healthcare is like military, education, policing . In that everyone is covered, everyone pays and not everyone uses or agrees with the policies but understands it is in the public interest for everyone to have full access to policing, education etc...
Maybe, just maybe a rich powerful country like the USA should provide a solid floor in healthcare for 100% of its people. It is not like Police do not respond if you don't have a job...
Even if it is a little costly surely it is the morally right choice, regardless of creed, religion and stuff.
maybe just maybe providing healthcare SECURITY is a vital service that would improve the quality of life for the roughly 100 million Americans who are just not really making it despite the hard work (everyone argues as to what "struggling " and by some definitions the number of struggle people drops to 75M or reaches 150M
45 MILLION Americans live BELOW the poverty level.
Maybe there is a reason no developed nation on earth has a free market healthcare market. Have you thought about that?
maybe Healthcare is like military, education, policing . In that everyone is covered, everyone pays and not everyone uses or agrees with the policies but understands it is in the public interest for everyone to have full access to policing, education etc...
Maybe, just maybe a rich powerful country like the USA should provide a solid floor in healthcare for 100% of its people. It is not like Police do not respond if you don't have a job...
Even if it is a little costly surely it is the morally right choice, regardless of creed, religion and stuff.
maybe just maybe providing healthcare SECURITY is a vital service that would improve the quality of life for the roughly 100 million Americans who are just not really making it despite the hard work (everyone argues as to what "struggling " and by some definitions the number of struggle people drops to 75M or reaches 150M
45 MILLION Americans live BELOW the poverty level.
Free markets in HC can work in some cases. The largest being more simple and conventional HC coverage for our masses of younger and healthy working families. Because risks and unknowns are relatively low in this vast group.
Free markets also have worked with some optional surgical procedures like eye Lasik and lens implants, as new technologies make these procedures all easier and faster. And predictably very low risk of complications.
Free markets in HC can work in some cases. The largest being more simple and conventional HC coverage for our masses of younger and healthy working families. Because risks and unknowns are relatively low in this vast group.
Free markets also have worked with some optional surgical procedures like eye Lasik and lens implants, as new technologies make these procedures all easier and faster. And predictably very low risk of complications.
Thats just meaningless rhetoric. Every single developed country has a private marketplace for health care services. Some people seem to be under the impression that the private marketplace is banned in every country except the US? 15-30% of all health care costs in single payer systems are privately funded.
No one can name a single free market health care system that works because it doesnt exist.
Free markets in HC can work in some cases. The largest being more simple and conventional HC coverage for our masses of younger and healthy working families. Because risks and unknowns are relatively low in this vast group.
Free markets also have worked with some optional surgical procedures like eye Lasik and lens implants, as new technologies make these procedures all easier and faster. And predictably very low risk of complications.
whoa got to stop you.
show us one free market healthcare system anywhere in the world.
YOU are saying the they work in "some cases" well show us just one single free market system.
ONE free market system, you claim it works in some cases , where are any of those cases... and claiming elective surgery is "free market" is rubbish. That is not HEALTHCARE that is elective cosmetic surgery. ie "i want " not "i need".
Healthcare is not breast augmentation , nor it is liposuction.
Am I the only one that notes the regressive nature of state and local taxes?
They're somewhat regressive but not enough to make up for the overly progressive federal income tax. That's why a $10,000 earner is paying only 13%, total (local, state, and federal), and a $500,000 earner is paying 43%, total. It's that very wide discrepancy in tax rates that makes every other country more tax regressive than the US.
Likewise, since the US is overly dependent on a very small percentage of the population for the bulk of tax revenue, the tax base is too narrow and not enough tax revenue is collected to fund benefits like UHC. Other countries know this. That's why their income tax brackets are MUCH more flat, and why they have a 20%-25% VAT that EVERYONE pays.
No its not. "single payer" means publicly funded, like Medicare. It doesnt mean government run.
According to Wikipedia:
Single-payer healthcare is a system in which the state, rather than private insurers, pays for healthcare costs....
The actual funding of a "single-payer" system comes from all or a portion of the covered population. Although the fund holder is usually the state, some forms of single-payer use a mixed public-private system.
The important distinction here is "funding" vs "paying". Single payer, the state pays, but the funding may be private or public.
Thats just meaningless rhetoric. Every single developed country has a private marketplace for health care services. Some people seem to be under the impression that the private marketplace is banned in every country except the US? 15-30% of all health care costs in single payer systems are privately funded.
No one can name a single free market health care system that works because it doesnt exist.
Sorry for wasting your time.
Successfully covering 100M of our people using more conventionally written HC insurance with more reasonable premiums and OOP expenses is nothing we could ever go back to and/or accomplish here in the USA.
Showing how - in some cases - free markets actually can work in HC is some useless illusion.
show us one free market healthcare system anywhere in the world.
YOU are saying the they work in "some cases" well show us just one single free market system.
ONE free market system, you claim it works in some cases , where are any of those cases... and claiming elective surgery is "free market" is rubbish. That is not HEALTHCARE that is elective cosmetic surgery. ie "i want " not "i need".
Healthcare is not breast augmentation , nor it is liposuction.
The USA has large groups of HC insurance consumers that are generally quite different. (and surely to some extent in other countries)
We have the largest being relatively young, healthy, working and low risk families.
We have the poor. We have the elderly. And we have the ones with pre-exisiting.
The first can be wholly taken out and dealt with in a more simple and conventional, more free market and less regulated manner.
Ocular Lasik and lens implants are examples where some HC can go and work in more basic free market ways.
Yeah, about that comparison. Where are the FICA taxes in the above? Conveniently forgotten?
On the US figures, they're included. That's what payroll taxes are. Look at my post again. It very clearly includes payroll taxes in the local, state, and federal total tax rate chart.
Quote:
What would be the effective rate in US if you prorate kids college education (which is paid by taxes in Sweden)?
Not everyone in Sweden can go to college. You have to pass tests. The left in the US would scream holy hell and racism if we did that here.
They're somewhat regressive but not enough to make up for the overly progressive federal income tax. That's why a $10,000 earner is paying only 13%, total (local, state, and federal), and a $500,000 earner is paying 43%, total. It's that very wide discrepancy in tax rates that makes every other country more tax regressive than the US.
Likewise, since the US is overly dependent on a very small percentage of the population for the bulk of tax revenue, the tax base is too narrow and not enough tax revenue is collected to fund benefits like UHC. Other countries know this. That's why their income tax brackets are MUCH more flat, and why they have a 20%-25% VAT that EVERYONE pays.
Not enough revenue is collected in the US because the US taxes someone making $300 000 at a much lower rate than in places like Sweden. The effective tax rate for someone at that level in Sweden is 53%, not including employer payroll tax and VAT.
You also have to include payroll and property taxes in the US. Local, state and federal income taxes are just part of the equation.
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