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Old 05-07-2017, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Madison, WI
5,302 posts, read 2,357,667 times
Reputation: 1230

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SophieLL View Post
How can someone get upset because the fact that they are healthy ends up paying for someone elses health costs.

I ve been extremely healthy all my life.

I paid for insurance cause i want fast instant care in case i ever need it.

Did i ever need it in 34 years? No

Was i paying for a service i ended up not needing for many many years? Yes

Did i end up subsidizing the not so healthy ones because of it? Yes

What kind of a twisted, selfish, emotionally damaged human being you have to be that the thought of accidentally helping someone else enrages you so much??
That isn't what makes anyone upset, and I think you know that. The issue is taking people's money by force to fund it (taking away people's right to choose), and also forcing people to serve them.

It's the difference between your friend asking you to pay for dinner, and them threatening you if you don't pay for dinner. You don't mind as much if they give you a choice.
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Old 05-07-2017, 09:15 PM
 
Location: A Nation Possessed
25,775 posts, read 18,840,914 times
Reputation: 22625
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Are you a libertarian?

I frequently come across libertarians who hide behind the constitution and the flag in order to deny poor, sick people the care they need.
I'm not denying anyone of anything. I'm simply suggesting we all come up with a solution that does not involve involuntary servitude.

To answer your question, yes I am essentially libertarian. As such I do believe in the constitution to the extent that it espouses individual liberty. But on this health care matter, I postulate that there is a way for sufficient health care and liberty to coexist. Very few others seem to share my belief that humanity has the intellect to devise that way. Most folks seem to want to take the easy and tyrannical way out.
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Old 05-07-2017, 09:17 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,663,022 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Do you consider healthcare a basic human right?

If healthcare was a right, you would have a doctor at your side 24/7, or be your own doctor.

In the woods of Alaska... You fall and break your leg, and you are all by yourself 100 miles from a person.
Do you have a right to fix your leg? Or do you have a right to demand, someone else be right there on the spot to fix it pronto.
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Old 05-07-2017, 09:18 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
18,504 posts, read 15,571,038 times
Reputation: 11937
Quote:
Originally Posted by T0103E View Post
Which means not fighting over who gets to force the other to pay for stuff.
No it means understanding the greater good for all.
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Old 05-07-2017, 09:23 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
18,504 posts, read 15,571,038 times
Reputation: 11937
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
So, then, do you believe that you indeed have the right to force others to serve you? And should we all hold that belief?
No, I believe that healthcare is important and VITAL and that makes it different than other services. It's life or death for some.

The argument that some use saying that food is vital as well, doesn't hold water, unless someone can find me a person who suddenly finds themselves saddled with $500,000 food bill.
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Old 05-07-2017, 09:25 PM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,969,746 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by T0103E View Post
That isn't what makes anyone upset, and I think you know that. The issue is taking people's money by force to fund it (taking away people's right to choose), and also forcing people to serve them.

It's the difference between your friend asking you to pay for dinner, and them threatening you if you don't pay for dinner. You don't mind as much if they give you a choice.
Lets get real though. We all pay for it if people dont get the health care they need. Thats a big reason why the insurance racket is so expensive in the first place. This whole "threaten at gunpoint spiel" is really about frustration about means testing the social safety net. You dont hear that spiel against public roads or even Medicare because people feel they themselves benefit from it, not "some other guy". Everyone pays into the system and everyone gets something out of it, like it should be. Thats also the same reason why people support their single payer systems in every country that has it. As long as legislation is passed to make sure everyone has skin in the game and the system is not means tested, but instead universal, people overwhelmingly support it, even folks who previously went on spiels about "threaten at gunpoint".
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Old 05-07-2017, 09:26 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
18,504 posts, read 15,571,038 times
Reputation: 11937
Quote:
Originally Posted by SophieLL View Post
How can someone get upset because the fact that they are healthy ends up paying for someone elses health costs.

I ve been extremely healthy all my life.

I paid for insurance cause i want fast instant care in case i ever need it.

Did i ever need it in 34 years? No

Was i paying for a service i ended up not needing for many many years? Yes

Did i end up subsidizing the not so healthy ones because of it? Yes

What kind of a twisted, selfish, emotionally damaged human being you have to be that the thought of accidentally helping someone else enrages you so much??
Exactly how I feel. I've been healthy for 58 years and have never had anything more than a check up. I don't begrudge anyone, and no one begrudges people that unfortunately have medical issues.

The peace of mind knowing that you don't have to ever worry about medical bills is priceless.
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Old 05-07-2017, 09:29 PM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,969,746 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
I'm not denying anyone of anything. I'm simply suggesting we all come up with a solution that does not involve involuntary servitude.

To answer your question, yes I am essentially libertarian. As such I do believe in the constitution to the extent that it espouses individual liberty. But on this health care matter, I postulate that there is a way for sufficient health care and liberty to coexist. Very few others seem to share my belief that humanity has the intellect to devise that way. Most folks seem to want to take the easy and tyrannical way out.
Does this liberty involve a type of 19th century witch doctor system? All people pay for services out of pocket and if people cant fund the cancer treatment for their child, that's the price of liberty?
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Old 05-07-2017, 09:31 PM
 
27,159 posts, read 15,334,701 times
Reputation: 12079
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
WHY have a government if it's to do nothing?

And how doe you expect it to do something without funding?

Are we to have a society that tries to advance or should we just go back to every man for himself?




I don't expect government to do nothing.


I do however have the expectation of them sticking to their enumerated powers.
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Old 05-07-2017, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
14,361 posts, read 9,795,791 times
Reputation: 6663
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Do you consider healthcare a basic human right?

Nope, but I do consider that the most compassionate country on earth will figure it out once the politicians get their heads out of their ASSEtS.
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