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Old 05-20-2017, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma
2,186 posts, read 1,172,469 times
Reputation: 1015

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
Bull.

They do pay federal income tax and payroll tax. Yes, they get a refund but those taxes taken out of their paychecks is REAL money they aren't seeing throughout the year. They ARE contributing.
It is a fact that many receive more from the government than they pay in.

 
Old 05-20-2017, 11:34 AM
 
33 posts, read 30,202 times
Reputation: 52
So I would suggest many here against them read this topic I started asking Europeans about the system: A few questions to Europeans regarding their national health care systems.

As is expected people in Europe are a LOT more kind and considerate about the welfare of others than Americans; politicians included. Then again they don't love throwing people in prison for stupid reasons either just for personal gain.
 
Old 05-20-2017, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma
2,186 posts, read 1,172,469 times
Reputation: 1015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mariatozz View Post
So I would suggest many here against them read this topic I started asking Europeans about the system: A few questions to Europeans regarding their national health care systems.

As is expected people in Europe are a LOT more kind and considerate about the welfare of others than Americans; politicians included. Then again they don't love throwing people in prison for stupid reasons either just for personal gain.
The problem here is that you are judging caring by who agrees with forced redistribution schemes by the government. There are plenty of non government solutions to helping the "truly" needy.
 
Old 05-20-2017, 11:43 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,222,338 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by maat55 View Post
The problem here is that you are judging caring by who agrees with forced redistribution schemes by the government. There are plenty of non government solutions to helping the "truly" needy.
Not really. I've asked this before......how exactly do you expect charity to cover the health needs of millions?
 
Old 05-20-2017, 11:46 AM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,572,795 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
I do understand it.

I also understand other things are compulsory, financially speaking.

- Buying food or seeds to grow your own food
- Paying utilities
- Paying car insurance, bus fare, etc.

Yet I rarely hear people complain about these things.
Gee, except for car insurance, did anybody put a gun on your head forcing you to buy these?

How are these remotely similar to paying taxes?
 
Old 05-20-2017, 11:48 AM
 
Location: USA
7,474 posts, read 7,036,445 times
Reputation: 12513
The Just World Fallacy, along with basic selfishness, drives them, particularly those on the far-right.

The Just World Fallacy is grossly inaccurate view of the world that assumes a "just god" or some other force that immediately and accurately balances everything so everyone "gets what they deserve in life." Many people - again, particularly those on the far-right - believe this nonsense since it ties into their religious beliefs and need to feel that "god is in control." So, for these types, we don't need social programs since if somebody is sick, poor, out of work, injured, or whatever, they clearly did something to "deserve it" because "god is in charge." There's also the convenience of reducing tax costs by letting "those people" just die off, but they don't like to talk about that since it reveals their pettiness to the world.

Now, common sense blasts the Just World Fallacy out of the water. A simple visit to a child's cancer ward makes it clear there is no real justice in the world... or, go spend some times among crippled and homeless veterans. But for those who buy into the Just World Fallacy, facts don't matter. Oh, sure - they'll make exceptions for the unlucky people they know - and themselves, of course, because hypocrisy is also at the core of this belief system - but for everyone else, they "get what they deserve in life." If you're poor, sick, out of work, or whatever, it's your own damn fault, and you should just drop dead. Then, many of them go to mass on Sundays, sing along with the choir, and listen to wonderful gospel readings about charity that go in one ear and out the other.

Those who buy into the Just World Fallacy are not only ignorant, but are often also horrible hypocrites - but they are as common as waves on the sea in America these days.
 
Old 05-20-2017, 11:49 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,038 posts, read 44,853,831 times
Reputation: 13718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
Bull.

They do pay federal income tax and payroll tax.
No, they don't. The statistics on this are quite clear:

Federal Income Tax Units: 171.3 million (Excludes those who are dependents of other tax units)
Federal Income Tax Payers: 93.8 million (Tax filers with a total federal individual income tax obligation of over $5 for the year, already withheld or not)

A tax unit is an individual tax return filer, or a married couple who file a tax return jointly, along with the inclusion of all (if any) dependents of that individual or married couple.

Tax Units with Zero or Negative Individual Income Tax:

77.5 million. 45.3% of all tax units.

Tax Units with Zero or Negative Sum of Income and Payroll Taxes:


46 million. 26.9% of all tax units

T15-0138 - Tax Units with Zero or Negative Income Tax - Tax Policy Center


Does it surprise anyone that about 27% of all tax units pay NO Federal Income Tax AND NO Payroll Taxes whatsoever on their earnings? That's almost always due to the various refundable tax credits offsetting them both, and almost always benefiting low to middle income earners.

https://www.irs.com/articles/refunda...le-tax-credits
 
Old 05-20-2017, 11:53 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,038 posts, read 44,853,831 times
Reputation: 13718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
How do I benefit from American men and women being killed, injured and maimed for corporate interests?
pknopp does. And it was her to whom I was replying. She expects to collect a pension. I've asked, and she won't refuse to accept that pension, even though to do so means she'll benefit from Wall Street investments and the MIC.
 
Old 05-20-2017, 11:54 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,038 posts, read 44,853,831 times
Reputation: 13718
Quote:
Originally Posted by maat55 View Post
It is a fact that many receive more from the government than they pay in.
Correct.
 
Old 05-20-2017, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Prescott Arizona
1,649 posts, read 1,008,732 times
Reputation: 1591
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mariatozz View Post
A large portion of Americans seem to be against social programs even though it may be for the common good. When there is talk of the (on average) much better social programs in many European countries the general response is "well, they have to spend more on taxes". To which I ask.....so? If it meant far better health care, far better maternity leave, etc. isn't that worth it? Do not the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one?
Sterilization of those with low intelligence would improve society. Do you support that?

Grinding up criminals into fertilizer and sending said fertilizer to Africa would improve society. I need to know if you support that. It's for the good of the whole you know. We need to be thinking abaout the human race not individuals. Can I trust that you and I are on the same page?
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