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What I am saying is that probably there is not enough of people willing to work on those "temporary visas."
"Big business ( agribusiness including) likes to have big pools of labor handy; when one worker quits, another one is ready to replace him/her - that kind of thing. The temp visas might not supply adequate amount of people - that's what I am saying.
That's how YOU see it fit. But not necessarily the employer.
"Most immigrants" nowadays are people from the third world countries, which brings us back to the "multi-culturalism and "diversity" issue...
No, it was not sarcasm.
Then if supposedly there aren't enough foreign workers who apply for those visas then what is your proposal?
It doesn't matter what the employers see or say. They are obligated to respect our immigration laws. For the most part it isn't about a shortage of American workers. It's about their own greed to increase their profits from illegal labor.
Why are we allowing in immigrants from third world countries anyway? What do the poor, unskilled and uneducated have to offer most of us? We can't have diversity thru legal immigration from immigrants that will be an asset to us? Excuses, excuses.
Then if supposedly there aren't enough foreign workers who apply for those visas then what is your proposal?
It doesn't matter what the employers see or say. They are obligated to respect our immigration laws. For the most part it isn't about a shortage of American workers. It's about their own greed to increase their profits from illegal labor.
Why are we allowing in immigrants from third world countries anyway? What do the poor, unskilled and uneducated have to offer most of us? We can't have diversity thru legal immigration from immigrants that will be an asset to us? Excuses, excuses.
I don't necessarily disagree with you but I think you're fighting a losing war if you think companies and their execs are going to cut back on their own pay out of sympathy for the low-wage American worker. Heck even DT and some on his cabinet employed illegal immigrants. That bottom-line decision making ability is what got these people wealth.
You said:
who do you think were doing them before millions of cheap illegals flooded our border?
I don't knowingly support these greedy employers or their illegal hires.
It's better if you can understand what you are really addressing and what one is dealing with... at the end of this post you will see it more clearly if you grasp the context of commentary.
Wow..... in part....so now you are talking about the era of the late 1900 and 1960 when SEGREGATION relegated black people to these jobs.... other than some sectors had migrant workers such as the vast industry of agriculture in places like California, whom at one time had a huge economy. (but,that's another subject it and of itself)
Across American, a lot of the jobs were done by minorities. I'd like you to read what MLK said at the Speech at Selma, which many white people could not and would not hear because of their bias and race anguish (hate)..... so to speak!!! see quoted text
So the illegal immigrant became the new ethnic version to use.
The problem is the poor whites never figured it out.... they directed their contempt at black people and now they direct it at the illegal immigrant... but the real orchestrate of this is the well to do and the wealthy.
If you note what Erasure and GregW said... they outlined the pursuit of a level of peasantry, and that was the go to ideal, once there could be no more "supposedly legalized slavery".... but... it remained in a format, and it not only encompassed blacks it too encompasses the descendants of the white indentured servant, who make up the poor and working poor whites of today
Because when the historical factors are factored, the Indentured servant was paid a small % less than what it cost the slavery to house and feed and clothe a slave... and translated into today's society... Minimum wage is approximately what it would cost in "today's income ratio, to "house and feed and clothe a slave or pay and indentured servant".... and the cycle just repeats itself....
The nature of the SERF Mentality did not vanish from many who came here from such status, it was passed along in folklore edicts " it was the official order" that was formatted and spread from generation to generations, that's why the poor whites will not give their attention or focus to see the wealthy as being those who orchestrate the system to keep it in as relative terms as in being "the same".
Example:
Corporate CEO pay themselves and their Executive at the same rate the Slaver's paid themselves and their top team. Companies now count their money in $Billions and 10's of Billions... no different than the Slaver's counted their money in $100's of thousands and Millions and $10's of millions and the other Industrialist of the Old counted their money in $10's and $100's of Millions.....
Trump now has taken a page from the first acts tried by the Confederate States Post Civil War... he now is talking about " Making people "APPRENTICES'... One should read about what was an Apprentice during the Post Civil War Confederate States. (( “Apprentice" laws assigned young African-Americans to "guardians," who were often their former owners, and dictated that they should work without wages in return for their board and clothing.)).
Trump thinks in these terms as well: His TV Show "The Apprentice" used Actors that had fallen out of favor and lost their once upon a time fortunes, and he made mockery of them, and dismissed them with extreme belligerence.... and people took the show to be a hit.. never understanding that it was based on "denigrating people whom were once revered in the entertainment industry in the previous generation". he handled his show, no different than the Former Slave owners handled former Slave in the new role as "Apprentices".
Nothing much has changed... School is now being disbanded by Devos, University is Priced out of the range of the working poor and certainly out of range of the poor, and if the working poor do go, they are indentured with excruciating debt, for degree that have no available usage... so they rarely work even close to the area of their claimed degree label. He has Sessions now, Promoting the Stiffest Penalty for the smallest crime, which is no different than how former slaves were treated by the law.
In essence its not much more than the Rise of the Confederacy... and people just fear seeing it for what it is. The Health Care bill is a prime example... If you are sick, or aged, the program is set up to be prohibitive for you to access, so ... if you can't earn money for the wealthy, there is nothing for you, and turning Medicaid over to state and telling them, any excess monies they can use it as they wish, is a way of telling them, to constructively deny benefits and service to the most needed... and only use it for those that might be rehab'ed to return to work 'quickly"... because now they want "time limits on benefits"... and when the time expires, then what? they are left to their own devise.. which likely leads to means to get the stiff penalties from the law and incarcerated. Remember. The 13th Amendment, said; Slavery was abolished EXCEPT.. WHEN ONE IS CONVICTED OF A CRIME.
When people realize that the Confederacy never cede themselves to defeat, they simply modified their approach and found means to take their war into the Government Administration, and now they fell they've Seized the Government and they are dismantling it, and pushing anything to privatization and States Rights.... Look at the Administration Members Trump chose.. it tells its own story.
So the illegal immigrant became the new ethnic versionto use. The problem is the poor Whites never figured it out.... they directed their contempt at black people and now they direct it at the illegal immigrant... butthe real orchestrate of this is the well to do and the wealthy. And the same nature of disregard is against given to the blacks... as was during the era of post slavery. .... ((To the Southerners (Confederates) these laws seemed to be only the necessary protection of the white population against the deeds of crime and violence to which a large, wandering, unemployed body of blacks might be tempted.))....
It's all a replay of the past, under a Morphed Program... "Confederate Policies in Continuance" and it won't change until working poor and poor whites awaken, as well as black and immigrants, legal and illegal... understand what they are working with.
Why do you think that "poor whites never figured it out?" "Poor whites" are all different you know - as much as "wealthy whites;" some of them are Democrats and some are Republicans. That means they believe in different ideas, but you somehow think that they don't have the "mind of their own."
Overall sometimes your *speeches* here ( I don't know how else to refer to them) remind me the speeches of some Bolshevik *agitators* ( as they've been called) circa 1917th in Tzarist Russia.
They too would exalt the virtues of the "workers and peasant" class, while completely demonizing the upper classes. The direct results of revolution ( and this approach) were dubious, to say the least.
And since you like to quote the Bible it seems, you need to start thinking in Biblical terms then as well.
There is no "unanimous look" at Blacks ( and people of color in general) among the Whites in the US. And for a good reason too.
So in other words you're for open borders and anyone should be able to just walk right in and snatch a job because the employer wants to hire them even if they are here illegally? Are you serious?
Srsly?
You jest. Stating the obvious, I haven't fallen 'hook, line & sinker' for the internally-conflicted ideological con-job.
America is big enough for everybody. The people who can't stand multiculturalism are welcome to continue moving further out to the hinterlands where they can feel safe. Enjoy yourselves out there.
I don't necessarily disagree with you but I think you're fighting a losing war if you think companies and their execs are going to cut back on their own pay out of sympathy for the low-wage American worker. Heck even DT and some on his cabinet employed illegal immigrants. That bottom-line decision making ability is what got these people wealth.
Why do you think Trump was elected? No, we aren't fighting a losing battle. Trump is deporting illegals and he has e-verify in his 2018 budget to stop these greedy employers.
America is big enough for everybody. The people who can't stand multiculturalism are welcome to continue moving further out to the hinterlands where they can feel safe. Enjoy yourselves out there.
No, it isn't big enough for everybody. There are 2 billon impoverished across the world. Do you think we can take them all in and provide them with jobs and resources? We aren't multi-cultural per se anyway. We have an identifying culture and language with minority ones living among us. I have no problem with that just as long as they don't change the mainstream culture, alter our demographics so that mainstream Americans become the minority in this country and assimilate into our society. Some people in here just don't get it!
Why do you think that "poor whites never figured it out?" "Poor whites" are all different you know - as much as "wealthy whites;" some of them are Democrats and some are Republicans. That means they believe in different ideas, but you somehow think that they don't have the "mind of their own."
Overall sometimes your *speeches* here ( I don't know how else to refer to them) remind me the speeches of some Bolshevik *agitators* ( as they've been called) circa 1917th in Tzarist Russia.
They too would exalt the virtues of the "workers and peasant" class, while completely demonizing the upper classes. The direct results of revolution ( and this approach) were dubious, to say the least.
And since you like to quote the Bible it seems, you need to start thinking in Biblical terms then as well.
There is no "unanimous look" at Blacks ( and people of color in general) among the Whites in the US. And for a good reason too.
I get your point, but I'm talking about systems...I pointed to a direct parallel between the USA Democracy and the Ideals of the Confederacy as "Models'...
when I refer to whites don't get it, its not meant in a all inclusive sense. because we know that not the case, and all wealthy people are not of evil intent. I've pointed in various past post the many who do good, work for good, don't seek the abuse the system but to build value that may benefit all and do so in a far base system in relations to understanding the nature of competition for the sake of survival.
if you read the Speech from Selma it may make it more clear.... when it spoke of the institutions of the old.
" The leaders of this movement began awakening the poor white masses and the former Negro slaves to the fact that they were being fleeced by the emerging Bourbon interests. Not only that, but they began uniting the Negro and white masses into a voting bloc that threatened to drive the Bourbon interests from the command posts of political power in the South."
When I say the poor whites, I speak surely in a partisan tone, because the Republican system I don't see it as a benefit to the poor whites nor minorities or other ethnic cultures of non angle descent, but of Business Interest BEFORE people interest.
Old Glory has a point as I outlined in Red. But it goes to the frame of "models'... and again that is a contrast of what was a Confederate Model and the Union Model of Democracy. When I say poor whites don't get it.. by that I mean,... if they break it down and look at it, their plight is the same as the minority.... as I spoke of that when I spoke of the equivalency of how Indentured servants were paid only a % less than it cost to house, feed and clothe a slave. As well how minimum wage is a modern day economic equivalency of the same. Thus... the aim is that poor whites and working poor whites, poor blacks and working poor blacks and poor ethnic groups must find means to realize they all face the same economic challenges... and over generations the dynamics have not made such a dramatic change. Poverty has increase with the population and much of the dynamics of % factors has an equivalency quotient.
There is as much a battle being waged among the wealthy relative to these same model clashes.
Its probably a heavy handed approach to address the methodology that poor whites and working poor whites, poor blacks and working poor blacks and poor ethnic groups must find means to realize they all face the same economic challenges... There is a segment of the Wealthy who is willing to work with that unison of the people.... and that is a necessary component collaboration of the economic status groups.
There are forces that drive the wedges and these are things that people must see the commonality faced in the challenges that are equally devastating on poor whites and poor blacks... If you read previous threads they address it... and its is frequently address across the tonality and depth of context of what I've written. I feel the same sadness for a struggling white family as I feel for a struggling black family... I speak of that in the discussion of the long history of poor whites as well as the long history of poor blacks.
I've drawn commentary that points to the fact that over all the generations even with the pitting of groups against each other with racist madness, the result pushes both 'downwards' and when they make gains, its stripped away, and when it stripped away and the challenges come, the wedge is forced more as a divide mechanism. That is what we as a "people" need to overcome. We need to be wiser to ensure that wedge does not force us in opposite direction ... I purposefully say thing and address it to poor and working poor whites, because history has a long tract of not pushing the raw elements in direct terms. I point again to such, when I speak of the ratio of public service users, but if one listen to party politics, it leads too many working poor to fight against themselves, when they are the beneficiaries of these programs, when they are pushing to cut it, and the back lash of devastation will fall upon them as well as other poor of all ethnic groups. the Health Care bill tells a BIG Story.... and that story is not a good one for "The Poor"...
In some of the older writing, I have defined "The Poor" as being a collective of ethnicities. Today, when policies attack the poor, it is not just black or white, is it both and all... whom are members of The Poor.
People I work with black and white all are facing challenges to make life better. I've ran programs that presented detailed exposure into the lives of very dire poor people as well as working poor of all ethnicities and its a devastating reality that supersedes skin color.
Before you say I'm taking a stand against all wealthy people, it is evident you have not fully comprehend some of my previous post. I speak of the how that some have devastated the people from the era of Junk Bonds, to different Administrations and their Policies, and variables within the social and civic dynamics. I used a great example of wealthy that is a mix that promotes more good than it does bad.. and that is Warren Buffett, he does not flip stock for the spin, he invest to build stability and value for the longer term.. that benefits "all people"... I spoke of his investment in Charitable Giving which exceeds the wealthy of many and he gained back as well, but since he invested in the Rail system, the tracks are repairs, and the rail system today is far better than it was before he made his investment and its stable. I've spoke of the Junk Bond kings who crashed Thousands of businesses and made 100's of thousands unemployed if not millions in the expanded collateral damages. We've seen raiders load business with debt, buying it to kill competition with a prescriptive plan to sell of the parts and in the process gain high wealthy but coast 10's of thousands job losses in the whole of it.
There's a vast mesh of variables involved in matters, and to hash them out and speak in them in varying modes as well as contrast... speak to the devastation not only of peoples lives, but communities, cities, states and this nation. But we can't ignore the historical posture that have been havoc making in the civic, social and community sphere of people lives and the devastated economic disintegration ... that seems to move in cycles and each revolution of cycles, the people are made more challenged, and more indentured with indebtedness....
Nothing is one dimension, and speaking about ethnicities can never caption "all" people into one cup... that is just not reality... one has to read with that point firmly embedded when they see pointers that speak of various group make up, be it race of gender. ... I don't get it why people like to "default to" thinking in terms when a group is referenced, that is is trying to say "all" is the exact same. that's not even logical even in a loony tune sense. it lends itself to thinking too small.. and we live in a vast society that is of many elements within its make up.
Even now I explain it, it won't be two post later, someone will make the same "default to", thinking. it only hinders forward progress in exploring the broad expanse of society ....
Wealth is as necessary in society as is the nature of the working class. This is the nature of what and how Capitalism function... but it does not need to give itself over the the premise of Greed's Madness.
how can people think and grasp the big picture and want to leave out elements such as history, and what was segregation, what was slavery, what was he ideologies that made such horrors, how it was promoted, how it was sustained, what damages it did, what reverberation that exist, how those reverberation impact into the now, and what works people have done to try and work through this, and then what exist of various racial hate groups, and what exist of groups that seek to build better unity....what exist on the religious divisions and on the political and how is this across the expanse of the nation, from State to State, within States, and within communities, All those things are "real"... trying to omit them, does not address the elements that are real an influential both positive and negatively in the whole of matters. It is not "one dimensional" it is Multi variant, and those variants has multi dimensional realism as well as collateral parallels. both congruent and in-congruent ....and within that they have points of symmetrical relevancy as well as asymmetrical irrelevancy. the combinations of "things" are many, but still the commonality is... the desire for a good and fruitful life. "how" is of many things.... therefore as you say, defer to the Bible Principles as God principles. The "Golden Rule" was given by Jesus of Nazareth, "Do to others what you want them to do to you. This is the meaning of the law of Moses and the teaching of the prophets"
Last edited by Chance and Change; 06-27-2017 at 08:53 PM..
Why do you think Trump was elected? No, we aren't fighting a losing battle. Trump is deporting illegals and he has e-verify in his 2018 budget to stop these greedy employers.
We've done this before and many times in the past concerning many things. Those willing to hire someone illegally won't be stopped because they pass another law.
Trump has it in his power to address this now and isn't. Sessions is a lazy POS. He along with others want to condemn others for not doing their job for them. Nothing is going to change because people like yourself will continue to make excuses.
Why do you think Trump was elected? No, we aren't fighting a losing battle. Trump is deporting illegals and he has e-verify in his 2018 budget to stop these greedy employers.
What's the difference between that e-verify and what we do now? Maybe if his main business wasn't in hotels, an industry that is heavily addicted to illegal labor, I'd believe it but this is like asking him to do something against his own self-interest. Politicians don't usually do things to lose money. I wouldn't hold my breath on this one.
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