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I do not support people coming here Illegally.... I do say, "those that are already here, whom are law abiding people willing and working to sustain and be a part of America. Let's find a way to work with them...
But .. while doing so.. Let's make sure we staff up our borders and fix out system at the "exact same time"...
No one seems to be working on that. because they can't do one thing, they don't do the other.. rather than sit down and figure it out... Reality is simple..
Rounding up the masses is not going to work. Rounding up people with criminal records and gang members, is workable...
but at the same time, hire and train people to work the border, but also fix the system of verifying people. We have COMPUTERS that can do many things, they can certainly compile and relate data....
If some people were not profiting from the scenario, we can be assured it would have long ago been fixed... Not only is it not fixes.... there is no cohesive plan, to clear and document those whom are here, and fix and set up means ta the borders to control not only the land borders, but our ports, and our open land border lines.
Only when some terrorist comes and cause havoc will people get up and make efforts to do what could have already been done.
There is no such thing as a law abiding illegal alien. How are they able to work if not by breaking the law? If we legalize them how do Americans get their jobs back? It would also negate our sane annual quotas for legal immigration for years to come. How is it fair to legal immigrants who came here the right way? How does that solve our overcrowded schools, jails, hospitals, roads and neighborhoods problems of which they were responsible for? Rewarding law breakers sends a message that our laws are meaningless. If you manage to cross our border illegally or overstay your visa you're home free. Does none of the above make any sense to you? Or does your agenda cloud your ability to use common sense and logic?
No one is talking about rounding them up in masses. Just enforce the laws on the books as they are found and remove all of the incentives for them to remain here including cracking down on those who hire them. I'm all for increasing our border security and making it impossible for them to live here but rewarding them is a whole different wall of wax that isn't in the best interests of our own citizens. I don't see what terrorists have to do with the millions of illegals that are here sucking up our jobs and resources. We need to secure our borders and ports from all illegal entry, period!
Exactly, and good post. Those who use PC language to describe a certain group instead of the legal terms have an agenda. I have to laugh when they say the use of the word "alien" is for outer space creatures when in reality it has more than one meaning. For example, we've all heard of a Resident Alien card, haven't we? Do we issue them to creatures from Mars?
There is no such thing as a law abiding illegal alien. How are they able to work if not by breaking the law? If we legalize them how do Americans get their jobs back? It would also negate our sane annual quotas for legal immigration for years to come. How is it fair to legal immigrants who came here the right way? How does that solve our overcrowded schools, jails, hospitals, roads and neighborhoods problems of which they were responsible for? Rewarding law breakers sends a message that our laws are meaningless. If you manage to cross our border illegally or overstay your visa you're home free. Does none of the above make any sense to you? Or does your agenda cloud your ability to use common sense and logic?
Your anger is misplaced. That is the whole idea here. Keep people divided.
If someone offers someone a much better job and way of life, most people are going to take it.
Your anger should be towards those who hire people illegally and that lie to you that they are going to do something about. As long as they can keep your anger somewhere else they rest easy.
This is a general statement not directed at you specifically.
There is NO such thing as a Sanctuary City. There are only federal agencies unwilling to do their job.
There is no such thing as an undocumented anything. They are illegal aliens according to our immigration law terminology. Don't like it, tough! I'm retired so don't make this about me. Are you actually saying that illegal aliens have no guilt in all of this, they are just innocent? Did someone drag them over the border to work here? They didn't know that crossing our border without permission from our government and working a job they weren't lawfully entitled to was against the law? Both they and their greedy employers are EQUALLY guilty.
No company has the right to hire illegal aliens for any reason whatsoever. Are you not aware of that? They and their illegal hires are breaking the law! I know many American construction workers, landscapers, etc. that were forced out of their jobs by the two "equally" guilty parties. I may be retired but I do care about my fellow Americans and the devastation that illegal immigration has brought on our country in so many ways. I don't know if you're an American or not but your anti-laws, anti-American attitude is shameful!
Well I don't like the terminology!
You talk all this tough talk about what company can and cannot do. Well you know what those companies think of you and your ideaology? THEY. DON'T. CARE. It's not about you. It's about money. If you're so patriotic, stop buying your clothes, your food, and everything else that are created with foreign hands. You people are so funny - you're probably typing on a phone, tablet, or computer that was created with foreign hands. But you want to come down on undocumented people? You don't see the hypocrisy there?
You ever eat out? Stay at a hotel? Buy a home? Eat fruits and vegetables? Meat and fish? Drive on a road? It's all accomplished by non-Americans who do it for less money. And the corporations and small businesses that hire them could care less about you. You're patriotism means nothing to Wall Street, Main Street, or Washington.
And then how much all those undocumented, unemployed workers will cost us.
They actually save more than they cost because:
1) employers don't pay them as much in salary...and they don't receive fringe benefits at all
2) they actually do pay taxes into the system
3) consumers pay less for everything as a result of using a workforce that doesn't cost very much compared to hiring Americans.
I'm not saying I'm in favor. I'm only giving the calculus here. But I'm not in favor of bashing the people who are actually working. If Americans want the jobs, why don't they take them? Plenty of jobs available.
Whoever digs a pit will fall into it, and a stone will come back on him who starts it rolling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory
There is no such thing as a law abiding illegal alien. How are they able to work if not by breaking the law? If we legalize them how do Americans get their jobs back? It would also negate our sane annual quotas for legal immigration for years to come. How is it fair to legal immigrants who came here the right way? How does that solve our overcrowded schools, jails, hospitals, roads and neighborhoods problems of which they were responsible for? Rewarding law breakers sends a message that our laws are meaningless. If you manage to cross our border illegally or overstay your visa you're home free. Does none of the above make any sense to you? Or does your agenda cloud your ability to use common sense and logic?
No one is talking about rounding them up in masses. Just enforce the laws on the books as they are found and remove all of the incentives for them to remain here including cracking down on those who hire them. I'm all for increasing our border security and making it impossible for them to live here but rewarding them is a whole different wall of wax that isn't in the best interests of our own citizens. I don't see what terrorists have to do with the millions of illegals that are here sucking up our jobs and resources. We need to secure our borders and ports from all illegal entry, period!
There is no resolve for your level of anger... you forget the most important fact.... "It Involves People Lives", you want to play Judge and Jury for your concern and not consider much else. the points you address have been discussed, debated, discussed and debated, the cost analysis has been done, and re-done, for decades, and the problem is not going to go away.
Some of these people have kids who were born in America.. That is an aspect of the law that has not been changed, it is exploited by Chinese for the last 15 or more years, of coming here to create "anchor babies", who will become cost related in 30-40 or so years if not sooner by some means.
Many Illegals came in the 1970's because the doors were wide open, they had kids, and their kids grew up and had kids, so now the initial illegal person is a Grandparent or Great Grand Parent, likely having worked in this country for 25-40+ yrs or more.
Many bought homes and as many white people moved from some areas, Mexican came in and bought the entire neighborhood and the shopping areas that go with them and elected their own ethnic people to the positions as Mayors and Council Members. Many are now business owners who employ other people...
but they are not alone. Whole sections of LA was dominated by Japanese, another section dominated by Chinese and Another section in another Country dominated by Vietnamese many were refugees upon their initial arrival. There are Cuban sections as many came as "the Cuban Boat People", and they were afforded 5 yrs of income earning with no tax deduced and 3% home loans, Many of the Refugees got the same deal, and some got various No repayable "grants", as well as funding for starting business, and they to had 5 yrs of tax free income, Some had Social Security modification which allowed them to work for xx number of years and receive benefits, sometimes higher than working American receive.
But no one is talking about any of these groups. Yes, the health care system got over taxed, because we did not try to set up a National Health Care system, where each user of the system would have been verified and certified as a participant covered under the plan.
Every time American has a "boom season of high profit taking", it forgets everything, and then the downturn comes, and the masses get clobbered, then the "racism, bias and bigotry rises to a fever pitch".
in the late 1970's American society turned its back on the black laborer, and opted for the Mexican laborer, at one point, everything was about the Filipino's, were they dominated Airport Security jobs sector, then they moved to the Nursing sector and into the school sector.
All during the 1980's the Japanese had free reign to do anything, and they were given a business loan without much effort, as they were "assumed to be affluent by their ethnicity", during that time, China was looked down upon and rated lower than South Koreans, Taiwan and Thais... After the Japanese Crash in the late 1980's early 1990's. During the mid 1980's Hyundai moved into the American market giving rise to the era of South Korean as the favored child people, and then China' became the "outsourcing darling in the 1990's and since then, everything went Chinese, they were too afforded loans by the push of ethnicity and the assumption they had wealth, plus they had a Country behind their American Bank Branches, so money flowed into their ideals and people gravitated to them, because they knew how to circumvent the quota system, so they became the Middle Man merchants and made a fortune and opened shops,supplied every other ethnic group with goods and they set up industry back home to cut their cost and those industries grew....
American's have to go to Post World War II to actually learn... After the war, the biggest hold back was done to blacks with the Jim Crow and the vile persisted and got a fever pitch, by the 1960's and by 1970's the job opportunities for blacks closed up, driven by contempt at the passage of the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Act... which said: Ok, so you have Civil Rights and you have Voting Rights, BUT you don't have any economic drives and we are not lending, we are not assisting and we are not underwriting, and we are not hiring.... so all the focus went to every other ethnicity... all whom too gained stature because of the Civil Rights Act , but none of it mattered other than to ensure that blacks did not get to walk through the doors or have access to the ladders of economic equilibrium. Then the blacks were insulted and slammed and told. "see all these foreigners come and they can make it , "why can't you", ALL THE WHILE knowing they had closed all the doors if one had black skin. When blacks started to head to the universities, up comes Reagan, who cut the funding, and said, "anyone wanting higher education has to pay for it", but none of such was the case, when the doors were open not only to whites but even the Middle Easterners, whom we too used our Military Operations to Train them all during the 1970's, because they dominated the Oil Game.
Much of this stuff people don't want to know, because theydon't care... but their lack of care is exactly why it has doubled back and consumed them now into the same exact cycles of economic deprivation they did everything they could to inflict upon and against blacks. While they did everything to uplift every other ethnic group, which ever way, the Global Money Supply moved, that group became the "darling of the era"... Now... All those Nations have the wealth, the factories, the technology, the skill, the education and they are now "global investors, and to them... America is no longer the Mecca, because they earn money from every nations they can ship their goods and move and invest their money.
Now... we are whining and crying about everything... but we still have not changed. History has shown American time and time again, EVERYTHING it does to try and squash the black society, it doubles back and become a detriment to these same working poor whites who sat silent and some even delighted in the lock out close out of blacks. Now... every other ethnicity has everything, they made conscience effort to deny to blacks..... That's how crazy it is...
But History is, Blacks have been here along with some of the first whites who arrived, and some were here before.. many, and have worked, by force and with creativity and invested themselves in fighting wars and all, but for some reason... the issue that white have in trying to denigrate and push back, hold down blacks continues to double back and bring him every thing of losses that he tries to cause unto blacks.
It's the craziest thing in the world..... Even when so many white people now complain about public assistance and they don't see or know that they are the greater user at 7:1 and higher.
In the late 1970's white they were telling black people "not to have babies, and denigrating black women for having babies, Mexican were making babies in rapid succession, county monies multiples and no one thought a thing about it, because everyone wanted to have a Mexican handy man, housekeeper, auto mechanic, carpenter and general fix it man... What people did not get, while they complained about Mexican living 7-10 in a house, they also saved their money, some sent money to Mexico and worked here while their family opened a business in mexico... By the 1980's these same people were able to buy homes and open business here. By the late 1990's Mexican were not so cheap anymore, the $25 a day was not enough and they began to quote their own prices, then people started getting more and more Anti-Mexican. By the early 2000's , Mexicans rates were the same as everyone else, and they may give a few % off to play into the game but it assured them steady income.
Over-All... American needs to start treating people with Respect... because every time it tries to screw over any group, the acts they engage doubles back and make the same hardship upon themselves. and Only a few at the top, Get Richer in the Process.
Immigration if far more complex and is entwined with bias, racism and bigotry, and how it tries to use it against various groups at various times and the cycle repeats itself, and in the big picture, is always pushed black people to the bottom as the last to be considered and the first to be accused.
The more they do it, the lower the general working poor white society falls....
But the Bible Told Man this:
Proverbs 26:27 Whoever digs a pit will fall into it, and a stone will come back on him who starts it rolling.
First Main Thing Americans has to do, is: respect the principle of Democracy, which means Equality is premier, and then work to build good relations with other mankind and in all ones dealing, be fair and equitable and honest and honorable. Good begat's Good....
Unfortunately, Man finds that so very difficult to be and do.... so he gets the consequences of not doing such.
There is no resolve for your level of anger... you forget the most important fact.... "It Involves People Lives", you want to play Judge and Jury for your concern and not consider much else. the points you address have been discussed, debated, discussed and debated, the cost analysis has been done, and re-done, for decades, and the problem is not going to go away.
Some of these people have kids who were born in America.. That is an aspect of the law that has not been changed, it is exploited by Chinese for the last 15 or more years, of coming here to create "anchor babies", who will become cost related in 30-40 or so years if not sooner by some means.
Many Illegals came in the 1970's because the doors were wide open, they had kids, and their kids grew up and had kids, so now the initial illegal person is a Grandparent or Great Grand Parent, likely having worked in this country for 25-40+ yrs or more.
Many bought homes and as many white people moved from some areas, Mexican came in and bought the entire neighborhood and the shopping areas that go with them and elected their own ethnic people to the positions as Mayors and Council Members. Many are now business owners who employ other people...
but they are not alone. Whole sections of LA was dominated by Japanese, another section dominated by Chinese and Another section in another Country dominated by Vietnamese many were refugees upon their initial arrival. There are Cuban sections as many came as "the Cuban Boat People", and they were afforded 5 yrs of income earning with no tax deduced and 3% home loans, Many of the Refugees got the same deal, and some got various No repayable "grants", as well as funding for starting business, and they to had 5 yrs of tax free income, Some had Social Security modification which allowed them to work for xx number of years and receive benefits, sometimes higher than working American receive.
But no one is talking about any of these groups. Yes, the health care system got over taxed, because we did not try to set up a National Health Care system, where each user of the system would have been verified and certified as a participant covered under the plan.
Every time American has a "boom season of high profit taking", it forgets everything, and then the downturn comes, and the masses get clobbered, then the "racism, bias and bigotry rises to a fever pitch".
in the late 1970's American society turned its back on the black laborer, and opted for the Mexican laborer, at one point, everything was about the Filipino's, were they dominated Airport Security jobs sector, then they moved to the Nursing sector and into the school sector.
All during the 1980's the Japanese had free reign to do anything, and they were given a business loan without much effort, as they were "assumed to be affluent by their ethnicity", during that time, China was looked down upon and rated lower than South Koreans, Taiwan and Thais... After the Japanese Crash in the late 1980's early 1990's. During the mid 1980's Hyundai moved into the American market giving rise to the era of South Korean as the favored child people, and then China' became the "outsourcing darling in the 1990's and since then, everything went Chinese, they were too afforded loans by the push of ethnicity and the assumption they had wealth, plus they had a Country behind their American Bank Branches, so money flowed into their ideals and people gravitated to them, because they knew how to circumvent the quota system, so they became the Middle Man merchants and made a fortune and opened shops,supplied every other ethnic group with goods and they set up industry back home to cut their cost and those industries grew....
American's have to go to Post World War II to actually learn... After the war, the biggest hold back was done to blacks with the Jim Crow and the vile persisted and got a fever pitch, by the 1960's and by 1970's the job opportunities for blacks closed up, driven by contempt at the passage of the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Act... which said: Ok, so you have Civil Rights and you have Voting Rights, BUT you don't have any economic drives and we are not lending, we are not assisting and we are not underwriting, and we are not hiring.... so all the focus went to every other ethnicity... all whom too gained stature because of the Civil Rights Act , but none of it mattered other than to ensure that blacks did not get to walk through the doors or have access to the ladders of economic equilibrium. Then the blacks were insulted and slammed and told. "see all these foreigners come and they can make it , "why can't you", ALL THE WHILE knowing they had closed all the doors if one had black skin. When blacks started to head to the universities, up comes Reagan, who cut the funding, and said, "anyone wanting higher education has to pay for it", but none of such was the case, when the doors were open not only to whites but even the Middle Easterners, whom we too used our Military Operations to Train them all during the 1970's, because they dominated the Oil Game.
Much of this stuff people don't want to know, because theydon't care... but their lack of care is exactly why it has doubled back and consumed them now into the same exact cycles of economic deprivation they did everything they could to inflict upon and against blacks. While they did everything to uplift every other ethnic group, which ever way, the Global Money Supply moved, that group became the "darling of the era"... Now... All those Nations have the wealth, the factories, the technology, the skill, the education and they are now "global investors, and to them... America is no longer the Mecca, because they earn money from every nations they can ship their goods and move and invest their money.
Now... we are whining and crying about everything... but we still have not changed. History has shown American time and time again, EVERYTHING it does to try and squash the black society, it doubles back and become a detriment to these same working poor whites who sat silent and some even delighted in the lock out close out of blacks. Now... every other ethnicity has everything, they made conscience effort to deny to blacks..... That's how crazy it is...
But History is, Blacks have been here along with some of the first whites who arrived, and some were here before.. many, and have worked, by force and with creativity and invested themselves in fighting wars and all, but for some reason... the issue that white have in trying to denigrate and push back, hold down blacks continues to double back and bring him every thing of losses that he tries to cause unto blacks.
It's the craziest thing in the world..... Even when so many white people now complain about public assistance and they don't see or know that they are the greater user at 7:1 and higher.
In the late 1970's white they were telling black people "not to have babies, and denigrating black women for having babies, Mexican were making babies in rapid succession, county monies multiples and no one thought a thing about it, because everyone wanted to have a Mexican handy man, housekeeper, auto mechanic, carpenter and general fix it man... What people did not get, while they complained about Mexican living 7-10 in a house, they also saved their money, some sent money to Mexico and worked here while their family opened a business in mexico... By the 1980's these same people were able to buy homes and open business here. By the late 1990's Mexican were not so cheap anymore, the $25 a day was not enough and they began to quote their own prices, then people started getting more and more Anti-Mexican. By the early 2000's , Mexicans rates were the same as everyone else, and they may give a few % off to play into the game but it assured them steady income.
Over-All... American needs to start treating people with Respect... because every time it tries to screw over any group, the acts they engage doubles back and make the same hardship upon themselves. and Only a few at the top, Get Richer in the Process.
Immigration if far more complex and is entwined with bias, racism and bigotry, and how it tries to use it against various groups at various times and the cycle repeats itself, and in the big picture, is always pushed black people to the bottom as the last to be considered and the first to be accused.
The more they do it, the lower the general working poor white society falls....
But the Bible Told Man this:
Proverbs 26:27 Whoever digs a pit will fall into it, and a stone will come back on him who starts it rolling.
First Main Thing Americans has to do, is: respect the principle of Democracy, which means Equality is premier, and then work to build good relations with other mankind and in all ones dealing, be fair and equitable and honest and honorable. Good begat's Good....
Unfortunately, Man finds that so very difficult to be and do.... so he gets the consequences of not doing such.
He'll never get what you're saying. But I do! Well-thought out and well-expressed! Kudos!
multiculturalism and diversity is causing division. It does not make us stronger it makes us weaker and destroys the fabric of society. Name me a place where this so called diversity is so wonderful? You can not. The places that have the most happy people are where they are homologous. Japan is one. They have a very strict immigration policy and they are among the happiest and content. This multicultural BS is down the same rabbit hole as political correctness.
Let me ask you, what's your first hand experience with multiculturalism and diversity?
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Whoever digs a pit will fall into it, and a stone will come back on him who starts it rolling
He'll never get what you're saying. But I do! Well-thought out and well-expressed! Kudos!
