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Not really, it uses an extreme example not based in reality, that no one would defend.....
The reality is that I paid $70K in income taxes last year and had access to exactly the same government services as tens of millions of people who paid little or no taxes. Many of these folks want even more free stuff. Who do think is going to pay for it?
It wasn't an extreme example, it was a reasonable projection of where we're headed if people don't stop thinking that the government has an unlimited supply of money.
No one believes that. Well, no rational person believes that.
Anyone can do it is not the same as everyone can do it.
There are very few able bodied people who are incapable of supporting themselves if they actually want to.
Problem is too few people have the ambition or the patience to work for it.
Our instant gratification, entitlement society has created a bunch of spoiled children who think that working long term to build a successful life while eschewing the temptations of childish irresponsibility is just too much trouble.
Ambition is more important than anything.
It's more important than intelligence.
It's more important than race.
It's more important than class.
Or gender. ..or sexual preference......
Or anything else that the left places sooo much importance on in their evaluation and opinions of others.
If I had more ambition, I could have risen to a higher position and station than the middle class life that I've created for myself and my family.
But even I have my limits of how much of my time and efforts I am willing to devote to my career VS having a life and time with my family.
Most people have a point where they become comfortable with what they have and what they have achieved in life.
Some people reach that point earlier than others though.
Except many people pay into the system and don't use those services. My example of me paying taxes that go to public schools, when I don't have children. I don't gripe because I know the benefits of having an educated population. Just like having a healthy population.
With UHC or any healthcare you are always going to have people not paying into the system. How much does it cost the US in healthcare costs treating those with no insurance already? Those people get treated early since they are covered. They don't wait until something is really wrong.
The fact is , that in the long run, UHC is cheaper to run, everyone gets covered, a lot less paperwork and moves with you throughout the country.
It just makes more sense.
Has it ever occurred to you that it might make more sense to try to get the actual COST of healthcare under control rather than just forcing someone else to pay your bills for you?
Health insurance is WHY healthcare is so expensive in the first place.
People don't care what something costs when someone else is paying.
And when that someone is the government, the costs are more likely to go up instead of down because there's a guaranteed cash cow payer.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy
What is "social democracy?"
No, we wouldn't have "transitioned" to any kind of democracy, which is mob rule. Our founders were much wiser (and far more intelligent) than most of today's university "professors." They knew history, and they understood the dangers of too much power in the hands of too few (or worse, in the hands of one person). That is why they gave us a Constitutional Republic, where the government is the servant of the people, and governs by consent of the governed. We have gone too far away from that principle, and are in danger of losing our Liberty. That is why people voted for Trump, and not Hillary. Those who support Hillary are Marxist-socialists, and are a danger to Liberty.
Teddy Roosevelt (hardly a namby-pamby) understood the dangers of too much power in the hands of "The Trust" (the large corporations and "1% of 1%'ers of that day). The American people were losing their right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness due to dangerous working conditions, corporations twisting the rules of the capitalism game to suit their own interests, and withholding information about dangerous products because they knew that if people had the freedom to make a choice would deny them the money they did not actually need (and let's face it, you don't have freedom of choice if you don't have full and complete access to information about the matter in question).
Sounds like history repeating itself like bad fashion trends.
The way Obama used it was to imply that the companies he was referring to had not contributed to "it".
What you even talking about?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barak Obama
If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business – you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen.
...
The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.
How on earth do you come to the conclusion that you did?
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96
There are very few able bodied people who are incapable of supporting themselves if they actually want to.
I'm not sure that I agree with you.
Quote:
Problem is too few people have the ambition or the patience to work for it.
I'm not sure that I agree with you
Quote:
Our instant gratification, entitlement society has created a bunch of spoiled children who think that working long term to build a successful life while eschewing the temptations of childish irresponsibility is just too much trouble.
I certainly don't agree with you.
I see no reason to believe that people have changed
I see every reason to believe that society has changed
Quote:
Ambition is more important than anything.
It's more important than intelligence.
It's more important than race.
It's more important than class.
Or gender. ..or sexual preference......
I don't disagree with you.
But I imagine that I do disagree with you regarding the magnitude of the difference in importance.
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As someone said, paying someone a living wage saves the taxpayer tax dollars in terms of lower welfare payouts. That's just "proper equipment maintenance" - for those who dehumanize humans as mere economic machines and nothing more. You run a machine into the red-zone long enough hard enough, it's gonna break down, whether for sophisticated equipment or humans. Sure doesn't sound like an efficient use of funds to me.
While I don't doubt there are people who abuse the welfare system, you can say the same thing for large corporations that refuse to pay a living wage to full-time workers who have neither the talent nor desire for schoolwork. "Ahh, pay'em a substandard wage. The welfare system'll take care of them". If that's not shirking on personal responsibility and making the public pick up the tab, I don't know what is. Oh, the "jobs for teenagers" line doesn't work either. By paying substandard wages, you're not even doing a good job of teaching teenagers that if you work hard you'll get ahead. Well, to be fair, perhaps a "living wage" law applying only to workers 18 yrs or over might pass constitutional muster, but I can't be sure. Even so, paying teens more to work incentivizes them to work.
Not everybody can be an IT worker, an engineer, or doctor or scientist. Nor does everyone have entrepreneurial talent.
Last year, more than any other, proves the fallacy of the OP's claim. Voters voted for the person that has a platform of doing things to IMPROVE their lives, especially the working class voter. They voted for the candidate that focused on economic issues, putting American workers first, improving the tax and regulatory climate for businesses, especially manufacturing. That promised to actually enforce our immigration laws, and by doing so reducing the number of people working illegally for artificially low wages, depressing wages for the working class. Not to mention costing them more by exploding the enrollment in schools requiring expensive ESL classes...by illegals that avoid paying taxes towards the schools in the first place. By working to enforce laws in other areas, taking criminals off the street. By not importing violent terrorists into this country in the name of "political correctness".
The thing the leftists STILL don't accept is that the vast majority of people actually want to work, to have the opportunity to improve their lives and to enjoy the results of their labor. Leftists seem to think that the only thing working people want are handouts.
The same goes for robust welfare programs many working class people would stand to gain alot by having strong systems in place to protect them from poverty if a job is lost. It honestly makes no sense to me. Looking for some clarification.
Taxpayers are footing the bill for universal healthcare and other welfare programs. They would rather keep their money than to give it to politicians who would waste it away. It would be like flushing your money down the toilet. Funny thing is most people who want social welfare programs contribute little to nothing.
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