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So you didn't read the link. Read the link first, tell me how much more education and training you have in animal care than vets, then we'll talk.
I read the link and I know enough about genital mutilation.
But all the words in the world will not convince any decent person that genital mutilation is somehow "good" for the animals.
It's animal abuse plain and simple. I think every decent people should agree to that. Please note, I am not against animal abuse; however, you can't tell me it's OK for you to mutilate the genitals of your animals but it's not OK for a Joe Six Pack throwing his dog on a campfire.
My little dogs would not do well in the wild. My little/youngest one is such a diva she would probably be killed in an off the leash dog park LOL. It's hard to believe they are 99% grey wolf.
Maybe yours won't, not everybody makes it in the wild, not even every lion will make it.
We humans selectively breed that ability out of the animals and we confine them in our house to further degrade that ability purely for our own enjoyment.
Is that not animal abuse? Answer honestly, please.
I don't. None of you could even come up with a remotely credible explanation.
If you say, here's a list of minimum requirements for a breeder to meet to be a "responsible breeder," I'd be right there with you.
In our line of business, we have to maintain certain standards like ISO/QS. If you don't have that, nobody is better than nobody.
I can list what I consider to be minimum requirements:
- Breeding dogs should not spend the majority of their life in a cage. If they are kept in kennels, the kennels should give adequate space for the dog to stand at its full height and stretch to its full length. The dog should have room to exercise each day.
- Breeding dogs should not be kept on a mesh floor.
- Sanitation of the facilities where the dogs are kept should be adequate. Clean bedding should be provided and waste removed daily.
- Clean water and adequate food should be provided.
- Dogs that are bred should be tested for diseases and genetic conditions common to the breed to ensure that they are not passing potentially crippling or life-threatening conditions on. Adult dogs should receive yearly checkups and the breeder should be required to provide adequate medical attention for any injuries/health conditions that pop up.
I don't think that is unreasonable and I know such requirements would not raise the cost of puppies significantly. There are plenty of responsible breeders out there who already meet these qualifications and sell their dogs more reasonably than pet stores do. If you are buying from a pet store, it is extremely unlikely that the breeder meets the bar I've set above.
For myself personally, I would further only buy from a breeder whose adult dogs are kept as pets in a home. I'm just not interested in buying from a breeder who keeps their dogs in a kennel situation. That said, I do see a difference between a well-run kennel and a puppy mill where dogs are kept in cages only a few inches larger than they are in each direction, where dogs aren't given adequate veterinary care, and are forced to live in their own filth.
I can list what I consider to be minimum requirements:
- Breeding dogs should not spend the majority of their life in a cage. If they are kept in kennels, the kennels should give adequate space for the dog to stand at its full height and stretch to its full length. The dog should have room to exercise each day.
- Breeding dogs should not be kept on a mesh floor.
- Sanitation of the facilities where the dogs are kept should be adequate. Clean bedding should be provided and waste removed daily.
- Clean water and adequate food should be provided.
- Dogs that are bred should be tested for diseases and genetic conditions common to the breed to ensure that they are not passing potentially crippling or life-threatening conditions on. Adult dogs should receive yearly checkups and the breeder should be required to provide adequate medical attention for any injuries/health conditions that pop up.
I don't think that is unreasonable and I know such requirements would not raise the cost of puppies significantly. There are plenty of responsible breeders out there who already meet these qualifications and sell their dogs more reasonably than pet stores do. If you are buying from a pet store, it is extremely unlikely that the breeder meets the bar I've set above.
For myself personally, I would further only buy from a breeder whose adult dogs are kept as pets in a home. I'm just not interested in buying from a breeder who keeps their dogs in a kennel situation. That said, I do see a difference between a well-run kennel and a puppy mill where dogs are kept in cages only a few inches larger than they are in each direction, where dogs aren't given adequate veterinary care, and are forced to live in their own filth.
Great.
Now if you can put that into a standard and provide certification, that would be a nice business idea. So for a breeder, they can choose to get certified or not, and most people will go for a breeder who has certification. No need for legislation. That's how ISO works.
In terms of agriculture, I don't think it's wise to homogenize crops too much. Diversifying is always a good idea in case conditions change that might make one strain of crop die out.
The adult dogs used to breed and produce puppies live in small cages with very little human contact often in poor health. When they can't be used any longer for breeding they are usually killed. The lucky ones are sold to breed specific rescues who can afford to buy them. These dogs are not socialized are fearful and have no idea what grass under their feet feels like. It's a horrible industry and you don't need to be an animal lover to find it repulsive.
I read the link and I know enough about genital mutilation.
But all the words in the world will not convince any decent person that genital mutilation is somehow "good" for the animals.
It's animal abuse plain and simple. I think every decent people should agree to that. Please note, I am not against animal abuse; however, you can't tell me it's OK for you to mutilate the genitals of your animals but it's not OK for a Joe Six Pack throwing his dog on a campfire.
Where's the logic and morality in that?
Oh for God's sake, drama much? If a female gets a hysterectomy, is that "genital mutilation" to you? If a guy gets a vasectomy, you call that "genital mutilation"? You're grotesquely downplaying how disgusting "genital mutilation" actually is.
It is not animal abuse. Animal abuse is beating an animal, shooting an animal for no reason than you just want to, torturing an animal, burning an animal, skinning an animal alive (as one jackass did in Florida to many cats in a specific area), throwing the animal out in to the wild to fend for itself, not feeding the animal, not taking the animal to the vet when it needs care, cutting the animal for no reason than you just want to, slapping the animal, stabbing the animal, kicking the animal, throwing the animal out of a moving car, purposely drowning an animal, etc.
Getting your dog or cat spayed/neutered is not "animal abuse", and it's absurd that you continue to spout such nonsense.
As I said in a previous post, too many people in Miami had the same mindset as you, and those animals suffered greatly for it.
Dogs and cats are domesticated. You're several years (understatement) too late to be talking about leaving them in the wild. You cannot put a domesticated animal in the wild. Not even ferals do well in the wild. They have extremely short lifespans and typically suffer, terribly.
And with that said, you stating that you're not against animal abuse is the most repulsive thing I've ever read on this forum...that's not an easy feat but you managed it. I will no longer address you anywhere on this forum.
If enough puppy mills got shut down, I could picture $10k pugs and $25k Frenchies and Englishes, and my budget can't afford that, so it would be either be dogless, or own a mutt or breed I don't want
That's not going to happen. Most people who know about dogs and want a specific breed will go to a reputable breeder. The only thing that is going to happen is that the puppy mills will be shut down. A reputable breeder is not going to suddenly start charging astronomical prices for their dogs or cats because they aren't in it for the money. They are in it because they care about the line. Do not confuse the greed of puppy mill pukes with reputable breeders. They are not even close to being the same type of people.
Oh for God's sake, drama much? If a female gets a hysterectomy, is that "genital mutilation" to you? If a guy gets a vasectomy, you call that "genital mutilation"? You're grotesquely downplaying how disgusting "genital mutilation" actually is.
It is not animal abuse. Animal abuse is beating an animal, shooting an animal for no reason than you just want to, torturing an animal, burning an animal, skinning an animal alive (as one jackass did in Florida to many cats in a specific area), throwing the animal out in to the wild to fend for itself, not feeding the animal, not taking the animal to the vet when it needs care, cutting the animal for no reason than you just want to, slapping the animal, stabbing the animal, kicking the animal, throwing the animal out of a moving car, purposely drowning an animal, etc.
Getting your dog or cat spayed/neutered is not "animal abuse", and it's absurd that you continue to spout such nonsense.
As I said in a previous post, too many people in Miami had the same mindset as you, and those animals suffered greatly for it.
Dogs and cats are domesticated. You're several years (understatement) too late to be talking about leaving them in the wild. You cannot put a domesticated animal in the wild. Not even ferals do well in the wild. They have extremely short lifespans and typically suffer, terribly.
And with that said, you stating that you're not against animal abuse is the most repulsive thing I've ever read on this forum...that's not an easy feat but you managed it. I will no longer address you anywhere on this forum.
Sure, let's agree to that. Animal abuse is harming the animals for no reason except for "none of your business."
Let's see. Is a pregnancy a disease? What about the males? Why cut off their balls when there's no disease? Is spaying or neutering to treat an existing or to prevent a predictable disease like cutting of breasts because high probability of breast cancer?
You aren't fooling anybody but yourself and a few cult people here. We mutilate our animals for our own enjoyment - just the same as throwing the dog into the fire.
It wouldn't. Responsible breeders do not sell their puppies to pet stores, anyway - they are very choosy about who gets their dogs. Healthy, well-bred purebred dogs are great, but I would not go to a pet store to get one.
This^. And it is possible to find an independent pet store that has a relationships with reputable breeders, but they are few and far between here.
My pet days were winding down with the 12 year old Exotic my daughter has. My wife and I went to PetSmart to pick up cat food and we always enjoy reading the stories from the rescue cats. I told my wife that the next cat for us would be a rescue, thinking it would be never because I wanted to go pet free once the kids are out of the house. A few days later I find a 4 week old kitten nearly drowning in the middle of the road during a thunderstorm.
Now instead of a tragedy or a nuisance, he is my best buddy.
I'm all for it as long as reputable breeders have an avenue to prospective pet owners.
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