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The point is the point.... I'm quite certain the point I desired to make was made.
I have no problem if you want to add in and expound to address democrats.
As to "Big Government"... with the vast array of "insidiousness" in the systems of society, Government would need to be "even bigger", to deal with... the madness of individuals and the self consumption mentality of individuals, the greed and corrupt mentalities, the abusive acts of people against other people, the neglect and apathy, as well as the basic laziness of many within the populations expanse.
I have no doubt that Democrats are with part and of some blames within our social and civic problems !!!!
But they don't push the evilness of "let's kill some people" obsession.
.. But the Article's Topic is about "REPUBLICANS AND THEIR EVIL OBSESSIVE AIMSTO PROMOTE A "LET'S KILL SOME PEOPLE" HEALTH CARE AGENDA.
Again you didn't say anything of substance. You never mentioned policy. It's always about policy.
I don't have a problem with seniors. They should just be treated the same as the rest of us. We are paying two thirds of their health costs and they have no limitations. Working people are struggling to pay for their own costs as well as their children. Now Republicans want to take health coverage away from the poorest. Why should seniors receive a Black AMEX for health coverage which we pay for when the poorest can't get any coverage?
For a senior to say their contributed? They pay about a third, we pay the rest. So when Republicans are gleefully taking health coverage from struggling Americans, it makes just as much sense to let Republicans voucherize Medicare.
It is Republicans that have long wanted to voucherize Medicare. It is Paul Ryan's dream. At this point, we may as well let him voucherize it. Let seniors get a coupon and go shop for coverage on the open market and see how far their coupon takes them. Let everyone be on the same level and then we can honestly talk about health care.
The point is, if we're going to kill Obamacare, let's voucherize Medicare at the same time. Knock it all down at once, truly get government ouf of health care rather than say one segment matters more.
I agree. IF Seniors are going to support taking insurance away from others - let's just start from scratch and rebuild the whole thing - including Medicare.
Do what Australia does. Exempt those who have private insurance from paying the national health care tax. Only those who use the national health care plan, pay for it.
Actually, I like the idea of a two part plan that keeps both.
Only the difference is that private insurance would only cover the small stuff....basic medical care etc.
Single payer would only cover the big stuff like major surgery, life threatening illnesses, etc.
Both would end up costing less because they aren't trying to cover everything.
How far back do we have to go (well before Obamacare) to enjoy a time when health care costs were not rising? One of the most significant reasons the ACA was even introduced let alone passed was to address the run-away costs of medical care, and to reconcile the issue of people not able to access health care coverage because of pre-existing conditions.
Easy to claim anything guboment is bad, but you might like to consider what is also not so great that isn't guboment too. That is of course unless you're one of these people who can't seem to understand there are usually two sides to any coin...
Too funny friend...
Healthcare costs were not rising significantly until government got involved in 1965 and you have no proof. None what so ever. Just because you said. If you had proof you'd offer it. Please go ahead and prove to everyone here that cost were rising significantly before government got involved. Before 1965.
You make things up -- Seriously stop and grow up. Telling someone they are lying when they are presenting you with data points that counter your point of view just shows childish behavior and isn't a discussion.
Your inability to understand data points is absurdly bad. You gave 3 data points, in 1 city, for one short period of time and think it has merit. The best part is you keep repeating that nonsense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by illinoisphotographer
I never once said that your 1972 bill had zero effect, rather that there seem to be plenty of local healthcare providers that are complying with this 1972 bill. This means, to me, that the barrier to entry isn't impossibly hard and that it isn't a true market regulation that prevents competition (unlike say utilities or cable internet).
Based on 3 data points, in 1 city, for one short period of time. lol
We've had it for a long time. Top say otherwise is absurd. From the link YOU provided " Private insurers accelerated these efforts in the 1940s when businesses, seeking ways to get around wartime wage controls, began to compete for labor by offering health insurance."
Quote:
Originally Posted by illinoisphotographer
the administrator of Baylor Hospital in Dallas created a system that caught on elsewhere and eventually evolved into Blue Cross. The Blues were essentially nonprofit health insurers who served local community organizations like the Elks..... HMOs became victims of their own success. Initially they were mainly nonprofit, but once again businesses spotted an opportunity and for-profit HMOs displaced nonprofit HMOs. (According to Cohn, 12 percent of the market was served by for-profits in 1981; by 1997, that was more like 65 percent.) With their bottom-line orientation, the for-profit HMOs were necessarily more aggressive about denying treatments.
sigh..... Again your inability to understand data points is astounding. from the article YOU linked.
"47 million Americans lack health insurance, up from about 40 million in 2000" Many didn't want insurance, many would have been covered had they gone to an emergency room they would have been put on medicaid and ot medicare. illegals were counted in that number.
"70% of uninsured children are eligible for Medicaid, SCHIP, or both programs, a 2008 study by the Georgetown University Health Policy Institute shows.
Census figures also show that 18.3 million of the uninsured were under 34 who may simply not think about the need for insurance, Sullivan reports.
And of those 46 million without insurance, an estimated 10 million or so are non-U.S. citizens who may not be eligible, according to statistics from the Census Bureau), Sullivan reports."
Quote:
Originally Posted by illinoisphotographer
As for you saying that technology has lowered costs in other sectors -- you're completely right. But other sectors actually save money from technology. Healthcare benefits from technology because there are advances in treatment that become possible that weren't before. In a business setting, technology means that I can now skype meetings halfway around the world instead of traveling there. I can have a single web-based database to house contact information that means we don't have to develop our own system and manage it. We can create marketing materials in a fraction of the time as before. These things save money.
With healthcare, technology means we can do more invasive surgeries with higher success rates. We can give amputees a chance to have a prosthetic hand that they can control, we have medications that can now save lives that wasn't possible 10 or 20 years ago. All of these things cost more money.
No they don't cost more and you have no proof. Again technology lowers costs in all fields except medicine. You claim these things cost more, prove it. Because you say so is meaningless.
Last edited by Loveshiscountry; 09-20-2017 at 07:58 AM..
Why should the chronically unemployed get a free pass on paying their fair share? European countries DON'T tax that way. EVERYONE pays the VAT tax.
Applies to EVERYONE? No "subsidies" or freebies?
Here is where Im torn. I am VERY sympathetic to Willy Walmart the guy who is at least trying to make his own way but he is constantly being devalued by globalism which cannot be stopped. 1/4 of our population has an IQ below 90. You are NOT going to make a tech worker out of them and there are only so many decent paying jobs for them; many of which are in danger long term to automation. (Truck driver for example could be fulfilled by an IQ 90 person. No Im not saying all truck drivers have an IQ of 90.)
I am not particularly sympathetic to people who dont at least make a go of it. Ironically, these people are covered by Medicaid. Then there is the rural poor problem... that can go on and on
In a way tho Willy Walmart WILL be subsidized. Even full time at say 24K annual income with a tax rate of say 6% employee and employer each, Willy will be subsidized, especially if he has kids. He does have skin in the game but he will NEVER receive a million dollar bill and be ruined.
If I could wave a magic wand I would add the folllowing:
The payroll tax shall apply to all earned and bonus income including exercized stock options.
Hospital bill simplification. Hospital room rate shall include all the saline, tylenol etc, tv and one parking spot for family. ICU room rate higher than standard but 500 page bills need to go. Rates shall be posted.
Docs are free to charge what they want but will go with posted rate in emergency situations. For run of the mill and planned things, rate shall be posted and agreed on. Insurance will only pay out (and count toward deductible at an agreed rate but you and your doc are free have a higher rate but IN ADVANCE AND BY AGREEMENT. Example Richie Rich loves his doc Dr. Hicost. Dr Hicost wants $100 for an office visit. Standard rate is $75 with 50 paid by insurance and 25 standard copay. Richie and Hicost can agree IN ADVANCE that Richie is going to copay at 50 dollars with the other 50 by insurance. Only the 75 dollars counts toward the out of pocket max. Eroom docs and other practicioners like radiology WILL go by posted rates for emergencies.
No monopolies on unpatented medicines.
The govt absolutely CAN negotiate rates like ALMOST EVERY other country does.
My perceptions are of course colored by experience. My retirement is gone to pay my wife's hospital bills when I was working 2 PT jobs at ~35K and pre Obamacare health insurance was like 1800 a month which isnt happening at 35K a year. I have a friend who HAD health insurance but capped out and now is ruined. He asked me, "What the hell am I supposed to do with a 750K bill?" This was after he lost his house and everything in it due to trying to pay them. He is 67 now and will never recover. I have another friend who had his daughter X ray in an E Room. 5K bill for 2 minutes of work. He GF was garnished for all of it. (They Live together) It caused them big money problems and ruined her stellar credit. Their health insurance doesnt cover out of network even tho the hospital IS in network. They are young enough to recover.
Sounds great. Let's end Medicare for seniors. They only pay about a third of the coverage they receive. Let's give them back their contribution and tell them to go shop for their own policies. After all, that is absolutely government insurance. Can't wait to see seniors learning how much their policies would cost on the open market. I'm paying for them now.
So you're okay with people who go back on their promise. You're okay with offering contracts and then tearing them up.
Just another example of why people shouldn't listen to you.
I understand this argument and appreciate the concern BUT it seems all this replacement stuff is trying to take govt. out of the whole thing but it looks like we will see HUGE increases in our premiums.
Am I missing something?
Yes the jump in premiums which has already happened because of government. Government run increases cost. There is not much incentive to keep prices down.
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