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Likewise, nobody has come up with a valid reason for punishing (stealing from) the rich to give to the poor uneducated unskilled people that have no right to other peoples property.
I make a certain amount of money, live in expensive SoCal, and manage to live within my means. I adjust my lifestyle to what suits me based on my priorities. I can afford a Porsche 911 gt3 RS, but I would barely be able to eat. Illegal aliens live with 10 working adults in a house hold and still manage to eat out, have drinks and have iPhones. The bleeding hearts have no sense of responsibility and accountability.
People have not only given real life examples where strong social programs work and work well, but we've discussed how using these programs helps the entire country.
Your choice to ignore those posts are on you, not the rest of us.
With a thread this long, as you know, there are many discussions and arguments going back and forth at once, so this isn't connected to the emerging argument within this thread.
That said, a country's wealth and prosperity is highly positively correlated with the degree of economic freedom, which includes much of Western Europe, advanced countries in Asia, Asia, NZ and the US and Canada. Each of these countries have advanced welfare systems of course, but possess a high score on the economic freedom index.
At the very bottom are purely socialistic countries such as North Korea and Cuba and chaos states in much of Africa, with post-authoritarian states such as those in Latin America in the middle.
I'm not advocating eliminating the welfare state-rich societies can afford such spending to a degree, but economic freedom is an essential element to be able to produce wealth to pay for such schemes. The wealthy are a necessary part of our societies, producing things we all need, want and use.
What about countries like Iceland, Norway, Finland and the Netherlands which have very socialist programs and cultures with strong economies?
Because from where I'm standing, that's where most of us "lefties" throw our support - an amalgamation of socialism and capitalism.
Are you referring to Wall Street liberals? Thats hardly "the left".
Do you support a New Deal type system that FDR advocated for? Or do you support a move more towards what they have in Mexico with much lower taxes, much weaker safety net, destroyed unions etc.
Economic freedom takes place when corruption and monopolies are fought and people are given the freedom to challenge the status quo oligarchy with power and influence. Do you think it is possible to ever again get a government not dominated by Goldman Sachs in America? Or has that train passed and we are forever stuck with Wall Street picking our government because of the immense power they have over the election system?
The Goldman Sachs candidate lost in 2016, I may remind you.
Goldman Sachs control America. Can we ever again get a government not dominated by Goldman? Is it possible anymore with the immense wealth and power of Wall Street? The question is whether we should transfer even more power to Wall Street and the ruling oligarchy.
How cute. Those $300 000 is pocket change for Goldman. Thats not how Goldman Sachs rule America. Trump has packed his administration with Goldman fat cats for a good reason. He knows where the power in America lies. And its not among the voters. Its among Wall Street elites who fund the puppets people vote for. The question we have to ask ourselves is whether we should transfer even more power into the hands of an unelected oligarchy on Wall Street? Do you think these rich people will do what is best for the poor, the disabled, the elderly and the vulnerable? Be honest.
Agreed. If people could provide concrete examples of their ideas working, improving national economies, improving the lives of citizens, etc. I would be more willing to listen. But I've asked that question numerous time here over the years and have yet to receive an answer.
There is a reason why other countries who care for ALL of their citizens do better than the US across the board in most measurable areas. I can name countries that do well under policies I support. Why can't the right?
As has been show to you, the poor are frivolously wasting billions of dollars of tax payer money on non- essentials.
Fix that instead of sticking your hand out again.
Most poor just waste money (soda, drugs and gambling) when you give it to them, which proves they are not poor in the first place.
You continue to pretend the money for welfare just magically appears out of thin air. It doesn't. It's taken from anyone paying more than their fair share of tax and given to the poor so they can make themselves sick. They do not use it to better themselves or build a ladder out of their financial situation.
As has been show to you, the poor are frivolously wasting billions of dollars of tax payer money on non- essentials.
Fix that instead of sticking your hand out again.
Most poor just waste money (soda, drugs and gambling) when you give it to them, which proves they are not poor in the first place.
You continue to pretend the money for welfare just magically appears out of thin air. It doesn't. It's taken from anyone paying more than their fair share of tax and given to the poor so they can make themselves sick. They do not use it to better themselves or build a ladder out of their financial situation.
This! There will be truly poor people, such as those with a true disability, whether mental or physical, who deserve our help as a decent society. But, the situation is that many people in poverty today are there because of institutionalized reasons, such as the economic deserts created by Democrat control of the ghettos or because of laziness on the part of individuals.
If we really care about people, we will invest in creating economic opportunities and cutting these people off.
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