Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You are pizzing in the wind. There is no way, if you are any sort of logically thinking person willing to accept facts honestly , that you can believe that the discipline problem and lack of respect for authority in schools today isn't much worse than 20-30 years ago. A blind person can see this, and the only people that would try to deny this are partisan hacks who just cant admit to the truth because it ruins their narrative.
And the reason for this problem is obvious to all except the willingly blind . You might as well be arguing that kids aren't really fatter today and get less exercise and outdoor activity than kids 30 years ago. Observable reality isn't your friend.
Yes, I think the discipline problem is worse today than 30 years ago.
I disagree that its because kids aren't hit as much.
Rather, its a catering, pandering approach to parenting that has lead to many of the issues we see today. Again, you do NOT have to hit ANYONE to teach them. And that is exactly what discipline is - teaching someone how to properly behave.
Yes, I think the discipline problem is worse today than 30 years ago.
I disagree that its because kids aren't hit as much.
Rather, its a catering, pandering approach to parenting that has lead to many of the issues we see today. Again, you do NOT have to hit ANYONE to teach them. And that is exactly what discipline is - teaching someone how to properly behave.
It’s not a zero sum game... most punishments don’t merit spanking and some do... having a rigid teach one way for all kids in the world is blatantly irresponsible.... I don’t disagree that some parents go overboard with physical punishment but the reverse is also true and the result of which are entitled kids... sitting in the corner is not going to work for all infractions otherwise every crook getting two years regardless of crime would lead to a lot more murders...
Yes, I think the discipline problem is worse today than 30 years ago.
I disagree that its because kids aren't hit as much.
Rather, its a catering, pandering approach to parenting that has lead to many of the issues we see today. Again, you do NOT have to hit ANYONE to teach them. And that is exactly what discipline is - teaching someone how to properly behave.
You are free to disagree all you want. Getting rid of corporal punishment is one facet of that catering and pandering approach you mentioned. Certain willful rebellious acts by children should be met with an approach that teaches them that it doesn't pay to disrespect mom and dad. You don't reason with a 9 yr old lying on his back in the seat of a car kicking repeatedly at a parent trying to hurt them while screaming at them at the top of his lungs. You bust his azz. ( I witnessed this first hand in a parking lot of a church).
I don't advocate frequent spanking. But some things need to be dealt with in a method that teaches the child that mom and dad are not to be crossed or messed with. I have a friend that used the "no spank" approach with his children.He is a Dr and was too socially "advanced and progressive " to resort to spanking. The girl turned out OK as far as I know, but girls are easy. The boy turned out to be a holy terror at school precisely because he had learned that he would not receive physical punishment , and when the school attempted it the dad tried to stop them from giving spats to his kid. The school finally told him that he could either let them give the kid spats, or they would repeatedly put the kid on suspension and upon each return put him in the "troubled kids" school because of his behavior and no support from the dad. The dad had to relent or have his kid kicked out , and amazingly, once the kid made a couple of visits to the principal and had his backside warmed up a little his behavior changed. But at school, not home. He still knew he didn't have to give his dad any respect, so he didn't. But he learned to respect the school .
On the other hand I had another friend that raised 3 kids in the 60's without ever spanking any of them, including the boys , and all of them turned out first rate. But he raised them on a farm and spending days on end after school shoveling pig crap out of the pens and weeding acres of garden took the place of spankings.
Last edited by wallflash; 02-13-2018 at 08:04 PM..
It’s not a zero sum game... most punishments don’t merit spanking and some do... having a rigid teach one way for all kids in the world is blatantly irresponsible.... I don’t disagree that some parents go overboard with physical punishment but the reverse is also true and the result of which are entitled kids... sitting in the corner is not going to work for all infractions otherwise every crook getting two years regardless of crime would lead to a lot more murders...
I don't think any punishment requires a physical component such as slapping, pushing, scratching, punching, etc.
You are free to disagree all you want. Getting rid of corporal punishment is one facet of that catering and pandering approach you mentioned. Certain willful rebellious acts by children should be met with an approach that teaches them that it doesn't pay to disrespect mom and dad. You don't reason with a 9 yr old lying on his back in the seat of a car kicking repeatedly at a parent trying to hurt them while screaming at them at the top of his lungs. You bust his azz. ( I witnessed this first hand in a parking lot of a church).
I don't advocate frequent spanking. But some things need to be dealt with in a method that teaches the child that mom and dad are not to be crossed or messed with. I have a friend that used the "no spank" approach with his children.He is a Dr and was too socially "advanced and progressive " to resort to spanking. The girl turned out OK as far as I know, but girls are easy. The boy turned out to be a holy terror at school precisely because he had learned that he would not receive physical punishment , and when the school attempted it the dad tried to stop them from giving spats to his kid. The school finally told him that he could either let them give the kid spats, or they would repeatedly put the kid on suspension and upon each return put him in the "troubled kids" school because of his behavior and no support from the dad. The dad had to relent or have his kid kicked out , and amazingly, once the kid made a couple of visits to the principal and had his backside warmed up a little his behavior changed. But at school, not home. He still knew he didn't have to give his dad any respect, so he didn't. But he learned to respect the school .
On the other hand I had another friend that raised 3 kids in the 60's without ever spanking any of them, including the boys , and all of them turned out first rate. But he raised them on a farm and spending days on end after school shoveling pig crap out of the pens and weeding acres of garden took the place of spankings.
I don't ever have to bust my children's butts. Proper discipline, following through with threats and knowing their currency means I don't have to resort to hitting them.
As for your friend's kid? I posit it was the follow through of the threat, not the physical spanking in and of itself that worked.
I don't ever have to bust my children's butts. Proper discipline, following through with threats and knowing their currency means I don't have to resort to hitting them.
As for your friend's kid? I posit it was the follow through of the threat, not the physical spanking in and of itself that worked.
We'll never agree but I'm happy to discuss.
You are welcome to posit whatever opinions you want , even though they aren't based on any actual knowledge of the situation and what all was attempted by my friend. The facts are, though, that he responded to being given corporal punishment by the school.
The other fact you cannot escape is that kids respect for authority has gone down the tubes in the last 20-30 years since it became trendy and fashionable to not spank your little dears for fear of warping their minds. You can try to search in desperation for other causes besides the lack of corporal punishment , but that is just exactly what you are doing, looking desperately for something else to blame the current state of affairs on .
Kids 30 yrs ago didn't dream of trying to kick or hit their parents or another adult .
You are welcome to posit whatever opinions you want , even though they aren't based on any actual knowledge of the situation and what all was attempted by my friend. The facts are, though, that he responded to being given corporal punishment by the school.
The other fact you cannot escape is that kids respect for authority has gone down the tubes in the last 20-30 years since it became trendy and fashionable to not spank your little dears for fear of warping their minds. You can try to search in desperation for other causes besides the lack of corporal punishment , but that is just exactly what you are doing, looking desperately for something else to blame the current state of affairs on .
Kids 30 yrs ago didn't dream of trying to kick or hit their parents or another adult .
The proof is in the pudding. The kids I know whose parents spank them are more misbehaved than their non-spanked peers. Why? Simple. Most parents do it out of desperation and frustration, instead of out of a place of love and logic. When you are calm and measured, you get better results.
Yes, yes I'm sure you and your friend are of the few who use spankings in a deliberate fashion, never lashing out in anger. I'm talking about the majority who do not. Even so...planning spankings? Odd to me.
The proof is in the pudding. The kids I know whose parents spank them are more misbehaved than their non-spanked peers. Why? Simple. Most parents do it out of desperation and frustration, instead of out of a place of love and logic. When you are calm and measured, you get better results.
Yes, yes I'm sure you and your friend are of the few who use spankings in a deliberate fashion, never lashing out in anger. I'm talking about the majority who do not. Even so...planning spankings? Odd to me.
Yes, the proof IS in the pudding.And we have an actual bowlful of observable evidence of how kids in public schools act today once corporal punishment has been largely removed ,as opposed to your unsupported claims that spanked kids misbehave more.
Observable reality in the largest test lab we have, public and private schools, does not support your views.
Last edited by wallflash; 02-14-2018 at 07:18 AM..
Yes, the proof IS in the pudding.And we have an actual bowlful of observable evidence of how kids in public schools act today once corporal punishment has been largely removed ,as opposed to your unsupported claims that spanked kids misbehave more.
Observable reality in the largest test lab we have, public and private schools, does not support your views.
Again, correlation does not equal causation. I would be willing to bet $1,000 if punishments were strict with clear guidelines and with stringent follow through, we'd see better-behaved kids. Additionally, giving kids responsibility helps with discipline as well. Too many kids today are treated as if they are idiotic dullards who can't be trusted to do anything for themselves.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
