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The odds that anyone is going to be in the sort of position you describe are extremely remote, but of course we'd all like to think we'd do what we could to defend or fight back against crazies like this.
On the other hand, it's really more likely that taking cover is about all anyone in a case like this can do in the short time before you also hope it's all over, that and maybe try to protect those around you. I have friends, for example, who were at the Route 99 concert shooting. No one had much chance to figure out what was happening let alone how to fight back.
These crazies are like sick wild animals who can act in highly unpredictable ways that may or may not include concern for their own life, but they sure can find a way to kill a good many people before anyone has a chance to do anything about it, from up close or from a good distance.
I find these comments about how to defend and fight back a little long on fantasy given the experience of most of these innocents who have survived (or not) these acts of terrorism, though I understand all the various reactions. The frustration of being "sitting ducks," especially when it comes to our children, breeds all manner of reaction that we all only WISH could somehow make a difference, before we're reading about the next one...
There was a woman who did a study on why survivors survive.
And the common thread among all survivors is 2-fold:
1. They immediately accept and believe the reality around them. Yes, that XYZ is REALLY THERE AND A THREAT.
2. They take some sort of action, whatever it may be.
Wow, CNN reporting that the second report they had yesterday was a call with lots of details that they dropped the ball on.
See something, say something...FBI ignores.
They called the FBI on Jan 5th, told them of the shooters desire to kill people, social media posts, gun ownership, and potential of him conducting a school shooting.
Assuming that the FBI works on an overnight basis to monitor hundreds of millions or BILLIONS (worldwide) of people and their trillions of messages....is ridiculous.
It is not the job of the FBI to protect us from our follies. It is the job of government and regulation to make sure the person never gets the opportunity.
As we speak, another school shooting is reportedly underway. It won't stop until Americans decide it will. Neither a "Police State" nor "hoping for better human behavior" will help.
So interesting how many of the same people who championed "making government small enough to drown in the bathtub" now want us to have expensive and qualified Federal Agents making major decisions overnight on forum posts on the interweb.
Won't happen. If you are intent on fixing this, you will have to do it by donating money and volunteer work to the proper groups and at the ballot box. Period. Mommy and Daddy FBI cannot protect us from Capitalism ($$ for guns).
The odds that anyone is going to be in the sort of position you describe are extremely remote, but of course we'd all like to think we'd do what we could to defend or fight back against crazies like this.
On the other hand, it's really more likely that taking cover is about all anyone in a case like this can do in the short time before you also hope it's all over, that and maybe try to protect those around you. I have friends, for example, who were at the Route 99 concert shooting. No one had much chance to figure out what was happening let alone how to fight back.
These crazies are like sick wild animals who can act in highly unpredictable ways that may or may not include concern for their own life, but they sure can find a way to kill a good many people before anyone has a chance to do anything about it, from up close or from a good distance.
I find these comments about how to defend and fight back a little long on fantasy given the experience of most of these innocents who have survived (or not) these acts of terrorism, though I understand all the various reactions. The frustration of being "sitting ducks," especially when it comes to our children, breeds all manner of reaction that we all only WISH could somehow make a difference, before we're reading about the next one...
Cannot rep you again but can post complete agreement.
Many are; I do not think there are many people who will advocate that people with mental issues or intent of harming people should have access to firearms.
You might be surprised. Right here on these forums we have people who admit mental illness and serve as armed guards.
What are "mental issues"? Are we going to do deep tests on every individual in the country? One of the Hallmarks of really sick people is the ability to act "straight" when it is needed.
Sorry, but all of these "stock" suggestions that get regurgitated will not work. It might be wise to study history and see how many schools shootings were this successful before the advent of tumbling high speed bullets and loosey-goosey firearms laws.
Note - add all the "mental issues" defined by the docs and the majority of people have some of them at some times in their lives. This would limit firearms ownership to a small % of the population.
There was a day, every HS had a shooting and marksmanship team. Turkey shoots, were a weekly occurrence.
Guns were brought to school for a purpose, daily.
Everyone at school must be on the shooting team, if we really are to follow the constitutions 2nd amendment and the well regulated militia part. The constitution actually mandates it.
I graduated in 1964 we never had anything like that, my brother graduated from High School in 1957 and there were no shooting teams in his school either.
How many life and death, or even near, have you been involved in? Have you ever been shot at or shot at someone? How about just a simple can of mace sprayed at you surprisingly? Ever have someone pull a knife on you? What is your experience with the subjects you just posted above?
Exactly. That poster posits that perhaps the trained professionals that were killed here in Colorado maybe didn't see it coming, but somehow kids are supposed to be able to defend themselves against rapid fire.
Correct? Israel guards its schools against terrorist attack from the Arabs that surround them and have vowed their destruction. Nutters in America wish to arm educators and have ex military roam the halls simply so the Adolescent Gun Cult can keep their cool toys.
Big difference.
Is it really? Have you looked at crime rates? Especially in large metro areas?
There was a woman who did a study on why survivors survive.
And the common thread among all survivors is 2-fold:
1. They immediately accept and believe the reality around them. Yes, that XYZ is REALLY THERE AND A THREAT.
2. They take some sort of action, whatever it may be.
Yes of course, and taking cover, hiding, protecting someone else are among the actions far more likely than anything having to do with attacking the attacker.
How many life and death, or even near, have you been involved in? Have you ever been shot at or shot at someone? How about just a simple can of mace sprayed at you surprisingly? Ever have someone pull a knife on you? What is your experience with the subjects you just posted above?
Yes, no with qualification, and yes. I have been in CS and CN tear gas in the military with riot training; but never sprayed with it as a civilian.
But, yes, I am serious about empowering our students. I once knew a masseuse at one job in the 1970's and we were in the Village when one man spat at her. She swung her purse and knocked him out. He and his partner did not like the fact that I had one woman under each arm. I later found out that she kept two rolls of quarters in her purse - I was surprised she did not kill him!
Defense can be all about using what is available. In today's world the kids cannot have guns like I used to have in school (I also graduated in 1964 from HS). But they can have quarters or common items like books, shoes, and chairs. But more so that that; they need training to operate as a 'team'.
No matter what we spend on protection it will never be enough. We cannot guard every child in every classroom. There are some individuals, even if they did not have a gun, would still find another way to kill.
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