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It takes two to tango... An intoxicated man or woman can both be capable of sex. Its silly to think otherwise. It is bias to think that intoxication equates to inability to consent UNLESS you are man.
Keep in mind that penetration isn't required for sexual assault.
Of course, the idea that a drunk person can't consent is ridiculous. That's when this gets taken too far and breeds resentment. People have drunken sex every day, there is nothing wrong with that. If a person is passed out, it's another story, they can't give consent and most people realize this and stop. In most cases someone having sex with another that is passed out knows what they are doing is wrong, and many set it up that way. Most men prefer women who not only consent, but are actually enjoying themselves.
Women need consent from men as well, physical reaction alone is not consent. I read a post on a forum recently where a man was raped at a party. He was extremely high and wasn't able to push her off when a woman got on top of him and raped him. I know there's the idea that alll men want it all the time and can't be raped by a woman but he did not want this. He had a girlfriend and he wasn't wearing a condom. He was really struggling with his feelings about it and what to do. A number of other men reported their experiences. Men don't want to be sexually violated either.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phantompilot
We need a timely reporting law so that people's lives can no longer be disrupted and democracy hijacked by ancient allegations which cannot be proven or disproven due to the lapse of time, eroding memories, and generally making it impossible to ascertain factual events from fictional allegations.
We can all agree that sexual assaults are more impactful on society than property crimes, right?
So, in CA and NY/RI, you have 5 days and 24 hours, respectively, to notify law enforcement of the theft of any firearm.
Surely for something even more emergent than a missing piece of property, we can impose the same reporting requirements on a far more serious offense, to ensure that investigations are contemporaneously initiated, that evidence is preserved, and so that the system ensures equal justice in the form of sufficient due process, for both victim and accused.
How about we go with a person is innocent until proven guilty. Seemed like that worked well before.
Uh huh. So if your mother, sister, daughter confided that she had been raped, you’d tell her “Sorry, don’t believe you?†And cons cry foul when they’re labeled as.....well, you know.
Isnt that exactly what the courts are doing...when someone MUST be assumed innocent until proven guilty?
Point is, if they must assume someone innocent until proven otherwise, thats basically assuming the victim is wrong, lying, etc.
Isnt that exactly what the courts are doing...when someone MUST be assumed innocent until proven guilty?
Point is, if they must assume someone innocent until proven otherwise, thats basically assuming the victim is wrong, lying, etc.
The presumption of innocence, is actually a misnomer. According to the Supreme Court, the presumption of the innocence of a criminal defendant is best described as an assumption of innocence that is indulged in the absence of contrary evidence. It is not considered evidence of the defendant's innocence, and it does not require that a mandatory inference favorable to the defendant be drawn from any facts in evidence.
After the government has presented enough evidence to constitute Probable Cause to believe that the defendant has committed a crime, the accused need not be treated as if he or she was innocent of a crime, and the defendant may be jailed with the approval of the court.
Presumed innocence goes directly with burden of proof being on the government and is protection from the government's extreme ability to punish via criminal prosecution. A defendent is declared "not guilty" they aren't declared innocent and it may be well known that they are guilty but the law doesn't support a guilty verdict.
Oh yeah, that will work. Women who are already devastated will have to report it immediately or it doesn't count. What a stupid idea.
So....you think it's more effective to fight against sexual harassment/assault by waiting weeks, months, or even years to report the crime? That doesn't seem in the least proactive. I mean for one thing, the evidence of a sexual assault is not going to be present for long. Immediately reporting the crime and allowing the authorities to gather as much evidence as possible before the evidence is either tainted or disappears is essential. The longer a person waits to report this type of crime, the less likely there will be a conviction. So while I agree that this type of crime against a woman could be devastating, waiting to report it or take action against an attacker will only make it worse in the end, because in all likelihood the victim will never get justice. Especially if the victim has waited years, or even decades to even say anything about the crime. And what about all the other possible victims who could have been saved from suffering the same fate, had a victim of a similar crime many weeks, months, or years ago found the strength to report the crime which was perpetrated against them. I mean, I'm not saying there should be a 2 day limit on reporting these crimes, but the bottom line is waiting to report a sexual assault is just about the worst thing you could do. Both for yourself and the women who could possibly become the next victims.
My new rule is that if someone is accused "on the eve of..." with no evidence I'm going to discount it. I discounted Roy Moore's accusers and I hated Roy Moore. It's just too obvious a smear and if they ARE telling the truth they are doing it wrong, are doing it in a way to call themselves into question, and they lose me at that point.
I'm also not interested in anything that isn't criminal being brought up more than 20 years later in an attempt to paint someone as a bad person. If there's no suggestion of it happening in recent times then it's probably no longer a problem. People change, so do our social values, morals and laws. I'm not about trying to hold the past to today's standards. I can't even stomach some of today's standards and I'm living here!
Well stated. Even if the accusation was true their motivation is wrong for coming forward "on the eve of.."
And also your second paragraph that was a big reason I didn't even care about the Roy Moore accusations, or the one's against Kavanaugh. For similar reasons to the ones you mentioned they don't define the person and are just not relevant.
So....you think it's more effective to fight against sexual harassment/assault by waiting weeks, months, or even years to report the crime? That doesn't seem in the least proactive. I mean for one thing, the evidence of a sexual assault is not going to be present for long. Immediately reporting the crime and allowing the authorities to gather as much evidence as possible before the evidence is either tainted or disappears is essential. The longer a person waits to report this type of crime, the less likely there will be a conviction. So while I agree that this type of crime against a woman could be devastating, waiting to report it or take action against an attacker will only make it worse in the end, because in all likelihood the victim will never get justice. Especially if the victim has waited years, or even decades to even say anything about the crime. And what about all the other possible victims who could have been saved from suffering the same fate, had a victim of a similar crime many weeks, months, or years ago found the strength to report the crime which was perpetrated against them. I mean, I'm not saying there should be a 2 day limit on reporting these crimes, but the bottom line is waiting to report a sexual assault is just about the worst thing you could do. Both for yourself and the women who could possibly become the next victims.
I don't think any reasonable person would argue with any of this. I think most are arguing against mandating quick reporting times. There can be serious repercussions for reporting that causes women, and men to delay. Hopefully, this is changing but in the meantime I disgaree with any early reporting mandates or shaming a victim who doesn't report. There are so many factors that affect a person's feelings about being sexually assaulted from where they live to their feelings about what it means to be a woman. It's just reality that having sexual behavior involved in a crime complicates matters, often dramatically.
I don't think any reasonable person would argue with any of this. I think most are arguing against mandating quick reporting times. There can be serious repercussions for reporting that causes women, and men to delay. Hopefully, this is changing but in the meantime I disgaree with any early reporting mandates or shaming a victim who doesn't report. There are so many factors that affect a person's feelings about being sexually assaulted from where they live to their feelings about what it means to be a woman. It's just reality that having sexual behavior involved in a crime complicates matters, often dramatically.
Go ahead and wait as long as you want to report a sex offense. I'll just have a harder time believing it or that it really was that important to you, especially if there's a clear motive for suddenly digging up the past, like jumping on the MeToo bandwagon or partisan political motivation etc.
Go ahead and wait as long as you want to report a sex offense. I'll just have a harder time believing it or that it really was that important to you, especially if there's a clear motive for suddenly digging up the past, like jumping on the MeToo bandwagon or partisan political motivation etc.
Again ....this has nothing to do with justice. It is about power. Like it always is with Marxists, none of their ideas or policies can exist without a victim. The entire ideology is a “Somebody done someone wrong song” .
But they don’t care if the victim is even real. A mythological victim is fine...even better actually, because it’s hard to impeach that which cannot be empirically examined.
This requirement for a victim, but more importantly for belief in the myth, is the source of all this identical rhetoric that spews out of every liberal echo chamber: “all women must be believed”.
Why? Because myths have no power without belief. So if you don’t believe it, the illusion doesn’t work.
And that’s why the left is always so laser focused on dictating what must be believed. That’s why they spend hours, these radicals, all making the same messages on signs “I believe Dr Ford” and such.
Notice they never hold up signs with messages like 2+2=4. Or “the sun sets in the West”.
Why? Because there’s no need to. You don’t make signs about things people can prove to be true....it’s pointless.
Whether it’s Obama’s monotonously repeated mantras “Make no mistake” (because you see , to not believe what the almighty Obama does must surely be a mistake) and “that’s not who we are” (with the twin suggestions that not only are he and everyone else the same, with one hive mind, and that he knows who you are better than you do yourself).
This is all the same thing: psychological warfare thru NLP. Neurolinguistic Programming. The basis of all modern advertising as well as agitprop.
Last edited by phantompilot; 09-29-2018 at 12:15 AM..
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