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Old 11-30-2018, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,434,708 times
Reputation: 4831

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
No, but I'm saying that humans are social animals, not herd animals.

Humans also have a natural tendency to operate based on individual motives
I don’t disagree. But it’s worth mentioning that social animals means individualism is not inherently part of our behavior.
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Old 11-30-2018, 10:14 AM
 
8,312 posts, read 3,929,182 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wallbuilder View Post
The whole point of America is that it's every man for himself. The reason our ancestors traveled here was to get rich and be free. They did not immigrate here to work for "good of society." You can immigrate to Cuba if that's your goal. Personally, I am business for myself. The whole reason why human civilization advanced is because people wanted to advance their own self-interest. Think about it: some caveman invented a spear because he wanted to eat mammoths.

If I had to bet, you continue to live in the USA even though your socialist brethren decided to work together to defeat the Nazis in WWII for the "good of society"; that you continue to drive on highways that were cooperatively constructed for the "good of society", and that you continue to enjoy the benefits of police and fire protection that are established via pooled monies for the "good of society".


It's just a guess.
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Old 11-30-2018, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
22,216 posts, read 21,681,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
I don’t disagree. But it’s worth mentioning that social animals means individualism is not inherently part of our behavior.
Individualism always has been and always will be part of the human dynamic -it's a matter of how much it is suppressed.
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Old 11-30-2018, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,434,708 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
Individualism always has been and always will be part of the human dynamic -it's a matter of how much it is suppressed.
Privacy and individualism (different things) are abilities of an autonomous mind. Our natural tendencies lead us towards social and communist practices.
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Old 11-30-2018, 10:26 AM
 
Location: IL
1,874 posts, read 818,617 times
Reputation: 1133
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeadDave View Post
If I had to bet, you continue to live in the USA even though your socialist brethren decided to work together to defeat the Nazis in WWII for the "good of society"; that you continue to drive on highways that were cooperatively constructed for the "good of society", and that you continue to enjoy the benefits of police and fire protection that are established via pooled monies for the "good of society".


It's just a guess.
Public works aren't 'socialist' and neither is the military. Even Adam Smith believe these things should be paid for by the collective.

https://www.marxists.org/reference/a...ok05/ch01c.htm

Your talking point comes up every time someone criticizes socialism and its wrong every time.

Even if it were 'socialist', why would you not use what you are paying for?
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Old 11-30-2018, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
22,216 posts, read 21,681,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Privacy and individualism (different things) are abilities of an autonomous mind. Our natural tendencies lead us towards social and communist practices.
They lead us towards social practices.

Communism is different though - it's a created political theory resulting from individualistic thinking. The small band of low tech hunter gatherers isn't a correct analogy on how societies should work.
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Old 11-30-2018, 11:04 AM
 
21,934 posts, read 9,508,101 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wallbuilder View Post
Direct democracy means 51% of the people can rightfully kill 49%. Strange definition of freedom.

???? You are really out in some weeds here.
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Old 11-30-2018, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,434,708 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
They lead us towards social practices.

Communism is different though - it's a created political theory resulting from individualistic thinking. The small band of low tech hunter gatherers isn't a correct analogy on how societies should work.
Communism/socialism are a terms that predate Marx and the 19th century, there terms based on the concepts of collective mutual aid.

Hunter gather tribes are just one example of this natural tendency, that only ceases to exist with external factors like profit motive and state coercement. Technology doesn't change this underlining behavioral aspect. It is the process by which natural selection evolved humans.
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Old 11-30-2018, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
22,216 posts, read 21,681,771 times
Reputation: 7608
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Communism/socialism are a terms that predate Marx and the 19th century, there terms based on the concepts of collective mutual aid.

Hunter gather tribes are just one example of this natural tendency, that only ceases to exist with external factors like profit motive and state coercement. Technology doesn't change this underlining behavioral aspect. It is the process by which natural selection evolved humans.
All human societies are an example of natural human tendencies, otherwise we wouldn't have involved into multiple economic and political systems.
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Old 11-30-2018, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,434,708 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
All human societies are an example of natural human tendencies, otherwise we wouldn't have involved into multiple economic and political systems.
Not necessarily.

The hunter gatherer tribes formed naturally without any external coercion. When you get to the age of empire and divine authority, people still communicated and interacted locally but it was twisted by a contextual outside force.

Same with capitalist businesses today, the money motive and the material marketing distorts human nature into a consumer when they were original individual producers.
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